Zen Devilry On Dr Phil Show?

[ajasatya]

it's ignorance when one stops being responsible. i'm not going to watch it but i can already smell egoic self deception.

[jse]

4 hours ago, Christian said:

He claims to know everything and it seems like he's just a complete dick.

Yep.  That's Dr Phil for ya...

[Loreena]

What is the meaning of Zen Devilry ?

[Ape]

@Loreena

 

[Heart of Space]

Zen devil?  Sounds like he had a psychotic break with reality and is self conscious about it.   

[Guest Annetta]

Madness and spirituality look so similar, but it looks like his life has taken a turn for the worst rather than better.  That is usually my criteria to determine spirituality/psychotic breaks.  They're very similar.  Even Jung learned a lot from his psychotic episodes.

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Deepak did not act like someone who has achieved great spiritual depth.

Deepak Chopra is simply a spiritual teacher, not a mystic or an enlightened master. He is alternative medicine advocate, public speaker, writer. 

[Toby]

Yeah, Deepak is just a writer who can synthesize concepts very well. He is not enlightened. He is still very much concerned with his image. Just look at his shoes.
As for the guy - if the story is real - I agree that it is more psychotic than "bipolar". He turned all the information into a massive delusion, even though he might have had glimpses here and there. There are so many things he says that have nothing to do with enlightenment:
- channeling: has nothing to do with enlightenment
- foretelling the future / "seeing": nothing to do with enlightenment
- "7th chakra": has to do with energy and nothing with enlightenment. It's a model, a map, that has been misunderstood by him. With an enlightenened being ALL chakras are transcended and integrated
- "manifesting": never heard someone who is enlightened speak about that stuff - except maybe Bentinho
- "positive thinking": never heard a master speak of that. Thoughts are thoughts. Enlightenment is not a state where you only think positive and "high" and "good" thoughts. He should at least know what is beyond thoughts.
- overall tone and his reactiveness: I don't think anyone enlightened would be so impatient and reactive to simple questions

[Guest Annetta]

@Toby I agree, he probably had an awakening and misinterpreted it.
---------------------------------------------------
(writing this at 5:55) - not sure if numerology has any place, but I might look back at it later if I need some clues.
Tangent...

I'm thinking that there needs to be a bridge between mental illness and spirituality, because the episodes are both so similar, if people like this man here perhaps had read up on Jung then he might not feel so defensive for having a psychotic break.  It's just speculation, but I watch a lot of Enlightened teachers on Youtube and they are all very calm people and this guy gives off a different sort of (but similar) vibe.  This guy seems not quite there.

I think psychiatry should look more into these psychotic episodes that people have, there's something there.  If the mentally ill could know that there is something legitimate about their experiences, but that it came about through a chemical or structural imbalance of the brain, like how everyone has a different path - then treatment might go better for these folks.

I plan to write something on this when I am well myself.
Hospital stay - meds - May
2-3 months for them to take effect
Therapist, psychiatrist- June
Harborview has a DBT program - can apply in June - 6 month waitlist - 1 year - 3 sessions a week

Hmmmn!  Something similar to the red book.  Could get started on notes in the meantime until then.  Ooh.  This has me excited.

[Dodo]

12 hours ago, Martin123 said:

@Toby wow such proof, much logic, very case, forever closed =D
Give the guy his enlightenment dudes. He has such a nice smileee <3

I'm never going to give the guy his enlightenment,  because it belongs to ME!!!

PS to others, whats wrong with being an authentic dick. We do need those!

Being part of the same body doesn't mean we are the same part of the same body! 

PPS: I am a Pinky finger, pinky promise

PPPS: All spiritual teachers are index fingers because they point a lot

Edited April 18, 2017 by Dodoster

[cetus]

58 minutes ago, John Flores said:

Dr. Phil is a condescending closed minded ass -hole;

I'll second that!

 What a negative/ controlling way to start an interview. When he said "you don't know what I know" I would of asked Dr. Phil if he experienced a spiritual awakening himself or was his point of view conceptual only. Huge difference!!!

[AlwaysBeNice]

He knows his ego is a phony show but still can't accept the whole deal (including the fact that he has suppressed emotions) and is in a state of make belief that he's further than he actually is. I've been there.

[Scholar]

It seems like he's fallen off the path of balance. I think his greed for enlightenment and truth is what is causing the suffering. 

The teaching of the middle way according to buddhism could probably help him. This is what can happen when you have a very poor understanding of the mind. If the ego is not studied and understood, there is always the risk that it will abuse and skew the expiriences.

I think some of us can learn a lot from his mistakes.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Scholar

[Martin123]

Such hate, and yet he is such a sweet sweet representation of the values actualized.org should be striving for.
1. Self-responsibility
2. Teaching by example
3. Emotional mastery
4. Enlightenment (even if its just debatebale)
5. Detachment from relationship and then allowing them to form on a deeper level
6. Non-materialism
7. Open mindedness
8. Optimism

Dr. Phil is a douche and makes him look bad, and he knows so. 
Deepak from a Chopper is just derping around like "I really don't know what Im doing."

Let the guy be.
And be honest with yourself when asking the following question.

If you awakened and found yourself in a place of deeply deeply conditioned family and felt powerless in all efforts to helping them, would a thought of leaving them not cross your mind? If he leaves them, he can do good to receptive souls. The ones that are ready to awaken.

When he talked about positive thinking I believe he could have meant manifestation, not just "aww ima tell myself this affirmation". Which isn't nothing terribly evil.
Of course he could have been confused on the brink of awakening. You underestimate how big of a paradigm shift awakening can bring, and how messy your circustamstances can get.

And also one thing to notice
Many of you kind of went in the direction of sheeple. Of Dr. Phil. Of mainstream culture. So what a great opportunity to ask the following.
How am I still conditioned in the western materialistic cult?
And you will open a pandora's box, that has a bright light on the bottom. 
 

[Scholar]

17 hours ago, Martin123 said:

Such hate, and yet he is such a sweet sweet representation of the values actualized.org should be striving for.
1. Self-responsibility
2. Teaching by example
3. Emotional mastery
4. Enlightenment (even if its just debatebale)
5. Detachment from relationship and then allowing them to form on a deeper level
6. Non-materialism
7. Open mindedness
8. Optimism

Dr. Phil is a douche and makes him look bad, and he knows so. 
Deepak from a Chopper is just derping around like "I really don't know what Im doing."

Let the guy be.
And be honest with yourself when asking the following question.

If you awakened and found yourself in a place of deeply deeply conditioned family and felt powerless in all efforts to helping them, would a thought of leaving them not cross your mind? If he leaves them, he can do good to receptive souls. The ones that are ready to awaken.

When he talked about positive thinking I believe he could have meant manifestation, not just "aww ima tell myself this affirmation". Which isn't nothing terribly evil.
Of course he could have been confused on the brink of awakening. You underestimate how big of a paradigm shift awakening can bring, and how messy your circustamstances can get.

And also one thing to notice
Many of you kind of went in the direction of sheeple. Of Dr. Phil. Of mainstream culture. So what a great opportunity to ask the following.
How am I still conditioned in the western materialistic cult?
And you will open a pandora's box, that has a bright light on the bottom. 
 

Of course we don't know the full picture. He might be a complete fraud and not have been enlightened whatsoever and still act the way he does. You cannot know that, just as you can't know if he did indeed have an awakened expirience.

I would disagree that he is teaching by example. Someone who teaches by examples, does not go around and say "You are so negative, think positive!", but would simply be positive and let that sparkle curiousity in others.

I guess this roots in the lack of wisdom, and lack of understanding the human mind. He does not understand himself, the workings of his psyche, which for me is an essential part on the path of enlightenment. The ego, as we know, can take any expirience that is non-permanent and use it for it's own purpose. If you expirience ego-death, once the ego reappears, it might think of itself that it is enlightened. This will give the ego a sense of superiority, that it will of course not utter in thoughts, but rather in subtle deeds and behaviour. The ego is not enlightened, it can never be. It's very dangerous for the ego to identify with this concept, especially after having had a direct expirience of it.

It's difficult to tell, but it does seem like he is conditioned by various sources that claim to know the truth. He believes in concepts that he has no direct expirience of, infact he is absolutely certain of them. He is certain that mere positive thinking can change the world around him, but he had no direct expirience of that. The certainity is what indicates immaturity of the mind to me. If you look at people who have taken this path and seem to be successful with it, you will notice a certain humbleness.

The ego can claim an expirience to be his, even if it was true. It can always self-decept, and the reason why this is so dangerous is because the ego now claims it knows absolute truth. Even though the truth is the absence of knowing, the ego is trapped in a belief system that it cannot escape. Before, the ego was investigating, questioning and it was skeptical. Now it claims to know the truth, and there might be no turning back from that.

 

It seems to me like it's essential to have a proper understanding of the ego before having an enlightenment expirience. The ego is so well at deception that it will do anything to survive. It will even pretend to be selfless, loving and all knowing, just to avoid true death.

 

You said it yourself, awakening can cause a massive paradigm shift. In this case it seems like this massive paradigm shift created a paradigm-lock, far firmer than the paradigm that was held before. It's not full surrender, it's the pretending of full surrender. It's not true love, it's the pretending of true love. He claims to know the unknowable truth. It's the ego grasping and holding onto awakening to avoid it's own parishing.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Scholar

[Martin123]

@Scholar so many assumptions

 

[Scholar]

Just now, Martin123 said:

@Scholar so many assumptions

 

Of course. The very fact that I think I am writing with someone is an assumption in itself. I do not know what you are seeking Martin. We cannot know what is going on in that human beings mind. All we can do is create an oppurtunity to learn, doing the wise thing instead of letting the ego play it's immature game of who is right and who is not.

It does not matter whatsoever if this person is enlightened. It is unknowable. Again, the assumption in this case serves the purpose of growth, it serves the broadening of perspective. It seems like you are more interested in who is right about him and who is not. Just as I am questioning the desire to tell you this right now, it would be advisable for you to do the same.

[Martin123]

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

 It seems like you are more interested in who is right about him and who is not. 

I could tell you what I think about the situation, which isn't really important I dont feel really like holding an opinion. I'd preffer observing everyone's energetical reactions to the situation.

But heres something more fun!

In your experience I dont exist as a conscious entity. I am merely a peojection.

So. Why did you project me in a way that I am trying to find out who's right/wrong? What is there for you to gain?

thhis isnt a question for you to anawer to me. Its a thing I hope will haunt your mind at least for a tiny bit! Hahaha best of luck

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

I could tell you what I think about the situation, which isn't really important I dont feel really like holding an opinion. I'd preffer observing everyone's energetical reactions to the situation.

But heres something more fun!

In your experience I dont exist as a conscious entity. I am merely a peojection.

So. Why did you project me in a way that I am trying to find out who's right/wrong? What is there for you to gain?

thhis isnt a question for you to anawer to me. Its a thing I hope will haunt your mind at least for a tiny bit! Hahaha best of luck

Even more interesting, why do you assume that in my expirience you do not exist as a conscious entity?

[Martin123]

@Scholar because you dont exist in mine.