UN admits civilian casualities in Gaza are close to HALF of what it thought

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Historically they have been accurate.

How do you know or verified this?

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

and apartheid against at that time the indigenous Palestinian population?

1. This is a bi-directional dynamic in which both sides react in ways that preserve the suspicioun and hatred between the sides.

2. West Bank is huge in its area in comparison to central Israel narrow corridor. I was actually surprised from how the difference is seen in Google Maps couple of weeks ago when I went to a small town in central Israel just next to the seperation wall.

3. Add the surface area of the mountainy landscape of WB in comparison to the mostly plane landscape of CI to this equation and you will see that the Palestinians in west bank sit in an incredibly huge area that isn't less than the populated area of Israel as a whole, plus a strategical height and depth, what makes at least the first phase or the beginning of the settlements project understandable.

Edited May 15 by Nivsch

[lina]

A better use of one's time and for the sake  of one's wellbeing is working on detaching oneself from all identities; and that includes Zionism whose reputation is beyond repair no matter how many attempts are made. It's just too late. 

 

 

 

[Merkabah Star]

9 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You just pull air to the balloon as you want.

The emerging evidences indicates something very different which is closer to 10-15K civilians and even this is right now, in front of 10-15K armed hamas people.

The updated killed ratio is now much closer to 1:1

Your words sound like you have been inhaling helium balloons. 

Like a little chipmunk. 🤡

the kill ratio is not 1:1

derrrrr… 

[Chadders]

@Nivsch There’s been a horrendous loss of life no matter what numbers are quoted. It is not just the lives that have been lost but the sheer torment that the Palestinians have had to live through. No comfort, no safety with death and destruction all around. This is not to mention the torture inflicted by Isreal on Palestinians  

The state of Isreal is just doing whatever the hell it wants to in the name of its holy war and national crusade against Gaza. I understand you may feel strongly about Isreal but the state has brought this on themselves.

Karma is a very real thing and it will come back to bite Isreal in the ass massively. It already is as more people turn their back on supporting Isreal and ultimately see it as a toxic state that we should not do business with. 

I think Netanyahu has actually lost the fucking plot. He’s like Putin

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

How do you know or verified this?

Israeli stats have historically lined with the Palestinian stats.

I cannot personally verify it, but that's what I have heard from reporters.

Edited May 15 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Israeli stats have historically lined with the Palestinian stats.

I cannot personally verify it, but that's what I have heard from reporters.

Ok. it will be interesting to see what is the case this time, since now this is I think very different when hamas reports can from its pov make the difference between survival and elimination, what wasn't the case in previous rounds.

[Nivsch]

@Chadders I disagree.

This is an hypocricy because though there was definitely an overreaction this time, the event has to be seen as the tip of 30 years long escalation process because this is the real picture and context.

The heavy responsibility hamas and upper fundamentalist part of Palestinian society have too to the outcome in this war cannot be overlooked. Being stage red does not exempt you from responsibility in the same way violent settlers aren't exempted from responsiblity too to the fire they fuel.

Aside with that, the meaning of fighting against guerilla when the outcomes in killed ratio were far worse when other western militaries did that too in the not-so-far past.

Edited May 16 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Israeli stats have historically lined with the Palestinian stats.

 

I have read that the ICC is making a case to arrest top Israeli officials for war crimes.

Do you think that should happen and do you think it will actually happen?

I think most of the IDF elite and key Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Gallant and Bibi himself should be trialed for war crimes similar to how top Serbian officials were trialed for the Bosnian and Kosovo war crimes.

What do you think?

Edited May 16 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Do you think that should happen and do you think it will actually happen?

It's a pipe dream. Like when leftists whine about how Cheney and Bush should be tried for warcrimes.

[Nivsch]

And won't solve anything other than radicalizing the Israeli society, rather than to go to an elections, get rid of Netanyahu and go slowely back to the much more peacful and hopeful society before Netanyahu turned leftism into a disease. Of course it will be harder now after what happened.

Edited May 16 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

And won't solve anything other than radicalizing the Israeli society, rather than to go to an elections, get rid of Netanyahu and go slowely back to the much more peacful and hopeful society before Netanyahu turned leftism into a disease. Of course it will be harder now after what happened.

Bibi with his other war criminal croonies must be punished according to international law. Regardless of whether it is a genocide or not, it is beyond question that collective punishment and countless war crimes have happened. People responsible must be properly punished for this.

Otherwise, it sends to the world the signal that if you are diplomatically supported by the West, then you can do whatever you want. That is not the world anyone wants to live in.

Just like you Israelis want the Hamas leaders that did the October massacres punished (I totally understand the sentiment), the other way around works as well.

[Karmadhi]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a pipe dream. Like when leftists whine about how Cheney and Bush should be tried for warcrimes.

Bush was the president of the US. The biggest superpower of the world. BiBi is a prime minister of a small country with 10 million people. There is 0 reason for him not to be trialed.

And the ICC did launch an arrest warrant for Putin. I doubt you can make the claim that Israel is any near as powerful as Russia is.

All it has going for it, is USA support which can be cut off if the US feels that Israel and especially the BiBi government is becoming too much of a burden.

Note that here I am not talking about US abandoning Israel but more about abandoning BiBi and his radical right wing government so they can be replaced by a more moderate government that would benefit Israel and the Middle East at large. It does not seem to me so impossible to do.

I dont know what you think.

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi This will make Bibi to be extremely popular again because his base will surround around him to protect him. A bad idea in my opinion. The things have to happen organically in their time without any outside intervention. As much as I highly disagree with you on the context and intentions (that changes all) I admit Netanyahu manages this war badly and does a significant extra unjust damage to Gazans that isn't necessary even as a war outcome.

Edited May 16 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

Every forcefull interventions from the center-left sector here too (~45-50% of the population) to knock down Bibi during the last decade have failed and only strenghtened him. There were hard efforts almost all the time.

Edited May 16 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

I admit Netanyahu manages this war badly and does a significant extra unjust damage to Gazans that isn't necessary even as a war outcome.

You do realize the "significant unjust damages to Gazans that isnt necessary" is what we call war crimes and is punishable under international law.

Especially considering the scale of the conflict here, it entails literally thousands of civilians, hundreds of children's and countless buildings destroyed which was not necessary.

So that part alone which we both seem to agree with is enough to arrest him on fair grounds.

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

This will make Bibi to be extremely popular again because his base will surround around him to protect him. A bad idea in my opinion.

I see, to be honest you know Israeli internal politics much better than me since you are from there. I would be curious, I saw countless protests recently wanting him not to go to Rafah and accusing him of failing to bring back the hostages. So many dont want him. Where does his support come from? From the far right radicals? Because I remember you saying they are not more than 5-10% of the total population. What am I missing here?

Edited May 16 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

and is punishable under international law

Do you want to go with your emotions or you want the best for Israelis and Gazans?

Edited May 16 by Nivsch

[royce]

haha

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Do you want to go with your emotions or you want the best for Israelis and Gazans?

What is best for Gazans and Israelis is that right wing people including Bibi are punished and replaced with more liberal green people.

The current Israeli government is stage blue, a stage green would benefit everyone.

 

Edited May 16 by Karmadhi

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Do you want to go with your emotions or you want the best for Israelis and Gazans?

What if war is what‘s best for the both of them as a key aspect of their overall developments?