Value Pyramid

[Leo Gura]

52 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Leo Gura 

Is a demon a state of mind, or is it a being? Maybe both?

You describe it as if humans could be demons. If so, then demons are similar to chameleons.

I speak of it from the perspective of imagining what it would like to have the consciousness of a demon. Analogous to you imagining the conscious experience or mind of a tiger.

Really imagine what is would be like if you were a tiger in the forest stalking a deer.

And then imagine the same thing but now you are a demon stalking a human.

[Pudgey]

@Water by the River

I have experienced such evil consciousness states on ayahuasca and its not suffering. Now, you could suffer when you are experiencing such state, but the state itself is not suffering. It's just loving itself and its evilness. But, you are speaking of evilness here, on earth - so karma may not apply. I'm speaking of absolute evilness experienced in an altered state of consciousness with psychedelics. And I'm sure these states remain mostly unexplored, unless done accidentally; we still don't know the permanent changes or dangers that can occur when accessing these states. But, they do exist. 

I also offer a challenge to anyone in doubt (or believe they are god realized): find a evil-haunted house with a known evil-spirit and take DMT. You may suffer, but the evil-spirit wouldn't. 

Edited May 25 by Pudgey

[Rafael Thundercat]

3 hours ago, Pudgey said:

@Water by the River

I have experienced such evil consciousness states on ayahuasca and its not suffering. Now, you could suffer when you are experiencing such state, but the state itself is not suffering. It's just loving itself and its evilness. But, you are speaking of evilness here, on earth - so karma may not apply. I'm speaking of absolute evilness experienced in an altered state of consciousness with psychedelics. And I'm sure these states remain mostly unexplored, unless done accidentally; we still don't know the permanent changes or dangers that can occur when accessing these states. But, they do exist. 

I also offer a challenge to anyone in doubt (or believe they are god realized): find a evil-haunted house with a known evil-spirit and take DMT. You may suffer, but the evil-spirit wouldn't. 

This is a nice experiment. I will try

[Vibes]

On 23/5/2024 at 10:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Lyubov If you resist being evil, you are unwhole.

The spiritual human notion of wholeness isn't real wholeness, it's a narrow human construct.

Anyways, I should stop here because this is too advanced for such casual dropping. You guys are not serious about understanding such things.

@Leo Gura I am very serious about understanding these things. Since very early in my life I feel like I must resolve these questions. The problem is fear of hopelessness. If I embrace this, what if I become a psychopath? What if I cause consequences that I do not wish? To truly embrace it means becoming it no?

Edited May 25 by Vibes

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Vibes said:

The problem is fear of hopelessness. If I embrace this, what if I become a psychopath? What if I cause consequences that I do not wish? To truly embrace it means becoming it no?

What if your next door neighbor is a psychopath and you never even knew it? 

[Vibes]

7 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

What if your next door neighbor is a psychopath and you never even knew it? 

Yeah yeah, the what if problem...

[Yimpa]

 

Quote

 

Edited May 25 by Yimpa

[nhoktinvt]

16 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

 

 

weak sauce

[Water by the River]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine a demon who doesn't suffer simply because a demon's mind works in a totally different, non-human way.

Consider, what if in the future humans genetically engineer a baby who experiences pleasure instead of suffering when hurting others? Like the inverse of empathy.

Even if demons suffered, what does it matter? Most humans suffer. So what? That does not stop humans from doing their thing.

You can call a demon dysfunctional like you might call a crocodile immoral for eating your child, but the crocodile just don't give a fuck what you call it and the crocodile feels no remorse, guilt, or suffering from its actions.

Crocodiles keep crocodiling.

Suffering in cycles is the force that pulls all beings and souls back to the source. Even the demon.

The more separation/duality/split off from the Source is experienced, the more suffering happens, and the more evil arises as coping mechanism. If love is not available, evil acts as coping mechanism. And only huge suffering forces the demon back on its path, away from separation and evil towards the other path, returning to the source/love. Ever heard of hell-realms/dimensions, full of evil? Thousands of NDE and OBE reports exists of these, throughout all ages&cultures.

 Anything split off from True Infinite Being as apparently separate being (illusion) suffers in cycles.

That is totally obvious in certain Awakened states. Where there is not THAT, there is only suffering in cycles. Anything but impersonal nondual Enlightenment  with the self-contraction of the separate-self gone suffers. Not all the time, but in cycles. Only in these realizations/awakened states of Infinite Impersonal Consciousness is the love of True Being flowing fully and unrestricted, and that finally lets the separate-self-contraction drown in oblivion.

Interesting that you are not aware of that, not even conceptually. Evil is separation and splitting off from the source, and compensating  and coping for that in extreme cases with evil behaviour, and love is the opposite force, which pulls all beings back. Reality "breaks" evil with suffering. And huge evil = huge suffering necessary. What do you think hell realms NDE/OBEs are? 

That is spirits way of nobody gets left behind...

PS: I am not talking about animals here, but more complex beings. Like humans/demons and so on...

Selling basic spiritual compass/intuition by the River

[Water by the River]

6 hours ago, Pudgey said:

@Water by the River

I have experienced such evil consciousness states on ayahuasca and its not suffering. Now, you could suffer when you are experiencing such state, but the state itself is not suffering. It's just loving itself and its evilness. But, you are speaking of evilness here, on earth - so karma may not apply. I'm speaking of absolute evilness experienced in an altered state of consciousness with psychedelics. And I'm sure these states remain mostly unexplored, unless done accidentally; we still don't know the permanent changes or dangers that can occur when accessing these states. But, they do exist. 

 

Hi Pudgey,

suffer in cycles. They have fun doing evil, and then they suffer. Big times. Or ever heard that the evil-spirit in the evil-haunted house is happy ever after? .  Yeah, that is why he became an evil spirit in a haunted house.

6 hours ago, Pudgey said:

I also offer a challenge to anyone in doubt (or believe they are god realized): find a evil-haunted house with a known evil-spirit and take DMT. You may suffer, but the evil-spirit wouldn't. 

Sounds like a very smart idea. Maybe the evil entity likes to play with you afterwards so much that you can take him home, and later on go bat-shit-crazy, or get cancer, or I don't know what? 

How do you think entities were being summoned over the centuries in the history of humanity? With psychedelics of course. Starting in prehistoric times. And good look getting rid of your new shadow then.

Hatsis, The Witches' Ointment: The Secret History of Psychedelic Magic

Hancock, Visionary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(supernatural)

At least some of these ladies & gentlemen had some basic understanding what they were doing and getting into, and some basic protection mechanisms.

Hic sunt dracones.

Selling don't shoot your knee cause it will hurt  basic cause-effect-or-Karma by the River

 

PS: Demon got a bit out of fashion, ET is more in fashion

Vallue, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers

And there are mostly nice ETs, then a few bad ETs, and also some "eat your mental sanity for breakfast ETs". Calling that then Alien Insanity would be a neologism with style, so to say.

And then there are some ETs which have some really interesting and fascinating stuff to seduce the ambitious & curious psychonaut. Sadly, no camera can take pictures of them.

And since one is already all beings, one can also become these ETs in certain states.

So better got Will Smith on speed dial, just in case... 

 

Edited May 25 by Water by the River

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Anything split off from True Infinite Being as apparently separate being (illusion) suffers in cycles.

This is human logic. Human projection.

It is moot for crocodiles and potentially many other kinds of minds.

A demon does not need to follow humanoid psychology.

Edited May 25 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

what we call evilness is what is necessary for the creation of form, and suffering is its consequence. there is no form without suffering. If your suffering and your evil disappear completely, your form disappears.

When there were only single-celled organisms on Earth, some of them thought of joining together, becoming a larger organism and killing and stealing the energy of those who did not do so. the very sons of bitches. Life is war, war is evil and evil generates suffering, and suffering is the crucible from which form emerges. We love the form, it is beautiful, rich, magical, so we must also love evil and suffering since without them there is only unity.

[Soul_Guy]

6 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

Interesting that you are not aware of that, not even conceptually. Evil is separation and splitting off from the source, and compensating  and coping for that in extreme cases with evil behaviour, and love is the opposite force, which pulls all beings back. Reality "breaks" evil with suffering. And huge evil = huge suffering necessary. What do you think hell realms NDE/OBEs are? 

That is spirits way of nobody gets left behind...

Yes, I think that is how the universe that we are currently experiencing operates. We are drawn towards the light - we are playing the game of finding our way back to the light. But here's an interesting perspective I've been pondering recently. Imagine that there is another universe that operates in the exact opposite way to what you described. A universe in which the goal of the "game" is to move towards the darkness.

[bambi]

7 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Suffering in cycles is the force that pulls all beings and souls back to the source. Even the demon.

The more separation/duality/split off from the Source is experienced, the more suffering happens, and the more evil arises as coping mechanism. If love is not available, evil acts as coping mechanism. And only huge suffering forces the demon back on its path, away from separation and evil towards the other path, returning to the source/love. Ever heard of hell-realms/dimensions, full of evil? Thousands of NDE and OBE reports exists of these, throughout all ages&cultures.

 Anything split off from True Infinite Being as apparently separate being (illusion) suffers in cycles.

That is totally obvious in certain Awakened states. Where there is not THAT, there is only suffering in cycles. Anything but impersonal nondual Enlightenment  with the self-contraction of the separate-self gone suffers. Not all the time, but in cycles. Only in these realizations/awakened states of Infinite Impersonal Consciousness is the love of True Being flowing fully and unrestricted, and that finally lets the separate-self-contraction drown in oblivion.

Interesting that you are not aware of that, not even conceptually. Evil is separation and splitting off from the source, and compensating  and coping for that in extreme cases with evil behaviour, and love is the opposite force, which pulls all beings back. Reality "breaks" evil with suffering. And huge evil = huge suffering necessary. What do you think hell realms NDE/OBEs are? 

That is spirits way of nobody gets left behind...

PS: I am not talking about animals here, but more complex beings. Like humans/demons and so on...

Selling basic spiritual compass/intuition by the River

This is 100% correct and matches my view/experience 1:1.

Unlike most people Ive expereince hell realms, and been completely disconnect. After doing copious amounts of cocaine and alcohol over lon gperiods of times, and then getting into spirituality, and then relapsing hard, all of my chakras and meridians where torn and shredded adn blocked,  I was in constnat 9/10 pain every waking moment for 2+ years (still am in pain), and I took heroic doses of psychedelcis to see if it would help, and Ive had soem of the most extremely terrorfiying experiences, where I beg for mercy and forgiveness whilst being shown im completely isocnnecte from God. Also the amount of resentment and hatredness towards God and life I was experiencing completely overhwelmed me too

 

This is no joke, people could suffer an unimaginable pain for unimaginable time, a demon would be in complete pain, complete torture

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is human logic. Human projection.

It is moot for crocodiles and potentially many other kinds of minds.

A demon does not need to follow humanoid psychology.

No, not human logic. Basic laws of duality when Infinite Being splits itself apart and plays hide & seek and return to the source.

How do I know that? Well, there are Awakened states where that is blatantly obvious

• what separate-self arisings that hide/cloud True Being are (separation= a spectrum of evil, from very mild to very very dark), and how they they literally contract the original Infinite Blissfull Being just with their arising into duality and separation. And contraction IS suffering, it is directly realized and felt that way, a cluster of sensations and contractions assembling a localization and center, most often in the head. And if one is able to cut them off fast enough, the Infinite Field returns to its original state: infinite and groundless and nondual without a center again. And full of love and bliss. 
• True Being is boundless infinite Nonduality and (your much absolutized) Infinite L-O-V-E. Sat-Chit-Ananda.
• and anywhere were that Awakening and love (when the clouds of ignorance is removed) is not and where it is clouded by separation, there is just necessarily suffering (in cycles and various degrees) and the self-contraction.

It is totally obvious and infinite/absolute that it is a no-brainer. 

And that realization my friend, that is absolute. There is no realm where that is not the case, because you know, Infinite True Being. Nothing outside of It.Either nondual and infinite and mere appearance and love, or duality and out-thereness, and fear.

Somebody ought to make a youtube-viedeo about it.

“Reality unfolds like a fractal divisions within divisions reunions within reunions. Consciousness polarizes and depolarizes it expands and it contracts back it diverges that it reckon verges and it keeps doing this forever eternally and that is the dance of consciousness or Infinite Mind” 

Aha. And now lets think that to the very end.

And again, I am not talking about animals, nor rocks or bacteria. But higher level beings and their evolutionary lines, starting on a certain level of complexity. A molecule can not be evil, but the game of Karma/souls and return to the source starts at beings/perspectives with some level of self-awareness. 

But thanks for commenting, I understand you and your behaviour a bit better now. I assume you think that something like a (relative, just appearing, but appearing nontheless) soul "storing" in a higher dimension all this self-contraction or openess/love, and other lessons and the impact it had (on others, and oneself), from life to life, doesn't really exist, even in a relative way. Or is subordinate to hey, its all imagined anyway. Which is true, but forgets the power that suffering and/or love still holds for a separate being to either be awakened in sobre states or not. Including you my friend.

I have a bit the feeling that you believe yourself to be a bit above the game of cause and consequences, or in other words Karma. You still are not telling why you stopped doing psychedelics and what happened, and write more about crocodiles.

If you don't just want to escape via psychedelics (spiritual bypassing) and want to find genuine happiness and sobre Awakening in daily life, I wouldn't consider myself (or my relative being) to be in any way above this game of cause and effect. How about this view? "Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour." Padmasambhava

If newbies take over this way of thinking (like lets go into a haunted house and try some DMT to meet something really evil, or blow up your relative life & values and just do spiritual/psychedelic bypassing, and I don't know what other less-than-smart-irresponsible stuff)... all these a bit less than funny posts in your forum where people somehow go for spiritual bypassing, although you write in places that is a no no?) and follow their idol, and then wreak their lifes... Ever considered its actually YOU in just another form suffering that? Literally You? Not metaphorically, not only true in some way out psychedelic states, but literally, all the time, just Absolutely True. Is that intuition and resulting love and compassion still so far away from your sobre life? 

You think that Infinite Intelligence will not give you some "less-than-positive-credit-points" on your Karma-Bill for just letting that happen? Where are your clarifying comments when a 20 year old again writes some irresponsible stuff that anybody with some more life-experience will see will f*** u* their lives? And what does Infinite Intelligence have in stock to finally correct such tendencies? Crocodiles. But is that really necessary?

Although the law of cause and effect and the crocodiles are just imagined, their imagined bite creates very painful imagined sensations. As we are all probably quite aware of.

Ok, that was the sermon for the sunday at the imagined church of

Selling basic cause & effect by the River 

 

 

Edited May 26 by Water by the River

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

No, not human logic. Basic laws of duality when Infinite Being splits itself apart and plays hide & seek and return to the source.

How do I know that?

You don't know that. You created a human spiritual fantasy about how consciousness works.

Your grand theory is infested with human bias and lack of imagination.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

You don't know that. You created a human spiritual fantasy about how consciousness works.

No my friend. Consider there are Infinitly Consciousness enlightened Awakened States and Realizations (where that is totally obvious and how that holds for Infinite Being/Reality) that maybe you haven't had yet.

Hey, I start talking like you 

Selling demon-eddies-in-the-River-are-not-permanently-without-suffering-but-rather-the-opposite by 

the River

[Javfly33]

All The rules of the game are my rules."

To play a properly a game, if you think the rules or the game are imposed to you, would you play that game joyfully? 

The rules are created so the dream make sense, and the most fun is possible when playing. 

One must not forget one created every single law for the well being for oneself, but later forgot that one created the rules. 

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, Soul_Guy said:

Yes, I think that is how the universe that we are currently experiencing operates. We are drawn towards the light - we are playing the game of finding our way back to the light. But here's an interesting perspective I've been pondering recently. Imagine that there is another universe that operates in the exact opposite way to what you described. A universe in which the goal of the "game" is to move towards the darkness.

There are certain things an Infinite Nondual Being can not do. Like die. Nowhere to go.

It can cast itself out into division and duality, or ignorance and delusion. But all of that is unstable, and returns to the source. Like a rubber-band.

A universe moving towards darkness doesn't make sense. The Alpha and Omega is Infinite Being. The groundless ground or Suchness of Infinite Being is always the same, even in your imagined universe whose game it is to move towards darkeness. All parts yearn for the whole. Yet same parts fear the love&unity so much that they retract further into "part-ness"/separation/duality. Which is unstable. The only stable "thing" is Infinite Being. Every other appearance is just temporary appearance. Which is quite shocking in itself, since everything we hold near and dear is an appearance, bound to disappear. While only formless True Being is eternal, which is pretty much Nothing(-ness) in certain states like deep sleep.

Think about it like this: Despite Infinity, certain things are just impossible. For example, in every 2-dimensional triangle in euclidian space, the sum of the angles is always 180 degree. No Infinity will change that, ever, in no realm. We have to move to non-euclidian-space then, which is no longer euclidian space, for which that law just holds. These "rules of the game" even hold for Infinite Being/Reality. Some things are just not possible, even in Infinity. Like for example total Non-Existence. Parmenides already reckognized "Being is, Non-Being is not".

Selling Being is by the River

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

No my friend. Consider there are Infinitly Consciousness enlightened Awakened States and Realizations (where that is totally obvious and how that holds for Infinite Being/Reality) that maybe you haven't had yet.

Hey, I start talking like you 

Selling demon-eddies-in-the-River-are-not-permanently-without-suffering-but-rather-the-opposite by 

the River

All of your Enlightenments and you still cannot account for the simple mind of a crocodile.

This is why I cannot take your Buddhism seriously.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura