Value Pyramid

[Leo Gura]

@Lyubov What's false is your unwillingness to imagine a broader situation.

Suit yourself.

[Lyubov]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine that you are unwhole BECAUSE you haven't tortured anyone yet. And you will only become whole once you do.

It’s impossible to be unwhole. It’s only possible to believe a lie which says “I’m unwhole” and then look for ways to try to make oneself whole. Which is what spirituality comes down to here. It’s realizing one is already whole always. You basically just described the lie people tell themselves which leads to rape. What I’ve been saying the whole time which I’m saying is false. 

Edited May 24 by Lyubov

[Leo Gura]

@Lyubov If you resist being evil, you are unwhole.

The spiritual human notion of wholeness isn't real wholeness, it's a narrow human construct.

Anyways, I should stop here because this is too advanced for such casual dropping. You guys are not serious about understanding such things.

Edited May 24 by Leo Gura

[Lyubov]

Where does resistance come into play here? I haven’t mentioned resisting (what I would call “not accepting”) rape exists. What I’m saying is inclusive. You are free to believe and live a lie such as “I’m unwhole” and from that lie you are free to express it through another lie  believing actions such as rape will make you whole. Which is impossible because you are always whole no matter what. Of course one can’t escape responsibility, so there will probably be consequences here for those actions in the form of law enforcement, but that outcome isn’t necessarily guaranteed. 

The wholeness I’m referring to is impossible for me to put into words and encompasses much more than my human life/story. How I’ve worded it here maybe doesn’t do justice for the conversation but I’m just working with what words I got. 
 

I haven’t seen anything advanced in your argument. I see only a misalignment in your thinking, but that’s just my perspective. I’m open to being wrong.

Edited May 24 by Lyubov

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine that you are unwhole BECAUSE you haven't tortured anyone yet. And you will only become whole once you do.

 

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am telling you to imagine a demonic mind which is not lacking anything. It just enjoys seeing others suffer. It isn't lying or dysfunctional. It just enjoys making people suffer like you enjoy ice cream.

In Infinite Being, if parts/beings split themself away from the whole voluntarily (spectrum of evil), they suffer until they return to the true state of things: Unity/Wholeness/Transcend&integrate/basically: non-evil. If suffering is not dysfunctional, then I don't know what is.

Even in every fairy tale the demons suffer. And relief that suffering by harming. And then they suffer more. Until these beings wise up. Basic common sense. Wonder why that is wisdom is already depicted in fairy tales, and in every myth humanity has ever created.

PS: I never said evil does not exist. It for sure does. Imagined. Whole realms of it. I am just saying it is a bit less than smart to be evil if one wants to be happy/without suffering. So evil is unstable. Will return to the source. Driven by suffering. And what does every being want to be? Happy and no suffering. And uses wrong means to get there until it wises up. That is basically the dynamic/engine of the whole Lila/game in a nutshell.

 

[Davino]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am telling you to imagine a demonic mind which is not lacking anything. It just enjoys seeing others suffer. It isn't lying or dysfunctional. It just enjoys making people suffer like you enjoy ice cream.

What a mind bend!

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine that you are unwhole BECAUSE you haven't tortured anyone yet. And you will only become whole once you do.

It makes sense, it's true that thinking like a human presupposes many things. There can be minds that find healthy what we find despicable.

For example, the other day I stepped on a pieace of shit. Naturally, I said: Oh shit!!!

Passing by there was a fly, seeing that enormous, warm, fresh, and stinking piece of shit said: oh man today is my lucky day! and had a whole feast of opulent food.

Edited May 24 by Davino

[mmKay]

Does gravity have morality? Does it feel bad or responsible for making sure not to throw things on your head? Does it have preferences , likes , dislikes, regrets?

 

 

Edited May 24 by mmKay

[Pudgey]

@Water by the River i wholeheartedly disagree with a portion of what you are saying.

Evil is not suffering; that's a human conception of evilness.

Evilness can be absolute; a net negative of human morality. It's infinitely Immoral, but also very very loving. It's fucked up. 

At this point, I'm absolutely positive there is demonic consciousness and entire webs of absolute evilness and different kinds of absolute evilness.  

Take some DMT and find out yourself. 

Edited May 24 by Pudgey

[Water by the River]

4 minutes ago, Pudgey said:

Evil is not suffering; that's a human conception of evilness.

Oh my, give it a try and see if it causes suffering or not. Then tell us about Karma 1 0 1. Sorry, that recommendation was a bit unresponsible. My bad.

 

6 minutes ago, Pudgey said:

At this point, I'm absolutely positive there is demonic consciousness and entire webs of absolute evilness and different kinds of absolute evilness.  

Sure there is. A few centuries ago, they called that daemonic (of the good and bad kind). Nowadays, many daemonic entities changed their pronouns, and go by more fashionable terms like Aliens et al. (of the good and bad kind, high and low kind).

Vallee, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers

11 minutes ago, Pudgey said:

Take some DMT and find out yourself. 

...and get a demonic fan-club.

Yes, great idea. 

Hic sunt dracones.

 

Selling Water by the River

PS: If selling Water by the River has to dream an illusion-dream anyway, he appears to have a a mild preference for a lucid nice dream instead of a non-lucid nightmare. But whatever floats ones boat I guess... 

 

[Majed]

@Leo Gura hey, i am serious about understanding such things. obviously the mind is capable of enjoying torture duh. the idea that torture is bad is a human construct. torture can be enjoyed by infinite mind. 

matter of fact i sometimes enjoy torture of people in movies for example, or i can enjoy seeing animals tortured in factory farms, lol. 

Edited May 24 by Majed

[Nemra]

On 5/24/2024 at 5:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

If you resist being evil, you are unwhole.

I'm evil, whether I resist or not.

Mind bending.

Edited May 25 by Nemra

[Yimpa]

My partner sometimes tells me that they want to bite my balls. What could that mean? 

[LordFall]

On 23/05/2024 at 9:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Lyubov If you resist being evil, you are unwhole.

The spiritual human notion of wholeness isn't real wholeness, it's a narrow human construct.

Anyways, I should stop here because this is too advanced for such casual dropping. You guys are not serious about understanding such things.

That sadistic demon would be pretty low on the spiral dynamics scale if it enjoyed causing pain to others. It wouldn't be a very powerful demon at all. I guess it's irrelevant what top values you have we're mostly interested in what values produce the greatest potential outcome. 

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, Yimpa said:

My partner sometimes tells me that they want to bite my balls. What could that mean? 

You either got delicious balls or your partner is a demon.

Edited May 25 by Leo Gura

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 24/05/2024 at 1:27 AM, Lyubov said:

This is too woo woo for me now

I would ask you why does that creature believe it has to rape and torture?

Some creatures dont need to belive things to behave as they do, their genetic just run as it is and you can bet against it on your own peril. Somewhere in the Video below about the Grizzly bear Fanboy is said " He belived he had a special bond with the Bears" yes, belief, values, he had that all, and non of that could save him from becoming Bear Food. It dosent mean we should not Value Love and Freedom but look, Somehow is implicit in his life that he Valued Love and Freedom, Love for Bears, Nature and the Freedom life. 

 

[Leo Gura]

23 hours ago, Water by the River said:

If suffering is not dysfunctional, then I don't know what is.

Even in every fairy tale the demons suffer.

Imagine a demon who doesn't suffer simply because a demon's mind works in a totally different, non-human way.

Consider, what if in the future humans genetically engineer a baby who experiences pleasure instead of suffering when hurting others? Like the inverse of empathy.

Even if demons suffered, what does it matter? Most humans suffer. So what? That does not stop humans from doing their thing.

You can call a demon dysfunctional like you might call a crocodile immoral for eating your child, but the crocodile just don't give a fuck what you call it and the crocodile feels no remorse, guilt, or suffering from its actions.

Crocodiles keep crocodiling.

Edited May 25 by Leo Gura

[Rafael Thundercat]

16 hours ago, Pudgey said:

@Water by the River i wholeheartedly disagree with a portion of what you are saying.

Evil is not suffering; that's a human conception of evilness.

Evilness can be absolute; a net negative of human morality. It's infinitely Immoral, but also very very loving. It's fucked up. 

At this point, I'm absolutely positive there is demonic consciousness and entire webs of absolute evilness and different kinds of absolute evilness.  

Take some DMT and find out yourself. 

In Ayahuasca trips I have seen beautifull realms as well as Demonic ones. There was times I use to fear the demonic but I came to undestand that all is allowed to exist, if we think we can kill demons and outcast them somewhere we are still thinking in a fashion of in and out or that there are a sort of Universe TrashBin. There are some sort of Hierarchy but difficult to say Who set the lines that divide them. I can dive in a ocean full of Sharks and look, me and the sharks co-existing simmultaneouly. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 02/05/2024 at 0:10 PM, Florian said:

So I'm not sure if this is actually true but I had two insights about values.

1: There are two main values and all the other possible values come from them and they are Love and Freedom (like feminine and masculine)

2: your value system is designed like a pyramid and on top of that pyramid is either love or freedom

now a way to find your values is to think: combining what two values gives me love/freedom or what two values is my love/freedom made of. And then continue down the pyramid. What values is are the two values below love/freedom made of?

ofc to grasp this you need an understanding of what kind of love and freedom i am talking about and also then you also need to know yourself and your own defintion of these values good enough to design your own value pyramid but I think this might make it a lot easier and clearer.- 

 

Key words to give deeped contemplation. Remembering that language is tricky:

1- "So I'm not sure if this is actually true" 

Here the writer express that there still more contemplation to be done.

2- "There are two main values and all the other possible values come from them"

Here the writer create a binary reductive path of A and B and all the C,D,E,F's derivate from those. 

3- "your value system is designed like a pyramid and on top of that pyramid is either love or freedom" 

Here would be nice to state "my value system is designed" instead of "your". Of course, is Self Bias 101. For a demon his top values could be Hate and Slavery at the top and all other values coming from that. 

4- "o grasp this you need an understanding of what kind of love and freedom i am talking about and also then you also need to know yourself and your own defintion of these values good enough to design your own value pyramid but I think this might make it a lot easier and clearer." 

Here the audience would love to learn more about what "kind" of Love and Freedom the writer is talking about? 

Can you @Floriangive more about it? 

The knowing oneself and the definition of this Values " Love and Freedom" relies in the hands of the readers" so they can build their own schema or Piramid of Values. 

The interestind stage is when you finish your piramid and than go test it in daily Real Life. There is where the game gets juicier. Will the Piramid resist the impact of Reality? 

 

[Nemra]

@Leo Gura 

Is a demon a state of mind, or is it a being? Maybe both?

You describe it as if humans could be demons. If so, then demons are similar to chameleons.

[mmKay]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine a demon who doesn't suffer simply because a demon's mind works in a totally different, non-human way.

Consider, what if in the future humans genetically engineer a baby who experiences pleasure instead of suffering when hurting others? Like the inverse of empathy.

Aka Sadism

Edited May 25 by mmKay