Value Pyramid

[Florian]

So I'm not sure if this is actually true but I had two insights about values.

1: There are two main values and all the other possible values come from them and they are Love and Freedom (like feminine and masculine)

2: your value system is designed like a pyramid and on top of that pyramid is either love or freedom

now a way to find your values is to think: combining what two values gives me love/freedom or what two values is my love/freedom made of. And then continue down the pyramid. What values is are the two values below love/freedom made of?

ofc to grasp this you need an understanding of what kind of love and freedom i am talking about and also then you also need to know yourself and your own defintion of these values good enough to design your own value pyramid but I think this might make it a lot easier and clearer.

 

[Kksd74628]

@Florian

Here's a little twist into your thinking that could add dimension into it. Before delving deeper into that I gotta say that your approach is valid and contemplating structural values that give meaning for sub values is important. The problem comes after thinking about these things long enough that you reach a point where it is hard to make any progress at all, because you've just hit the end of spiritual inquiry that reveals that everything just is, period. Understanding is not solely enough; you need to partner it with creating.

Understanding is bringing things together and decreasing noice for the sake of reaching clarity. Creation aspect aims to build character and lifestyle that is UNIQUE for you. Of course both understanding and creating work as a team together to enhace the power of each others. What I've managed to realize is that the blindspot of most spiritual people is that they don't focus enough or at all for creation aspect, but they just dream of reaching new stages of emptiness. IMO the point of understanding should be to CREATE from it and not just escape the whole game and smile like an idiot.

Feel free to comment on this to continue the contemplation with me.

-joNi-

[Florian]

More complete form would propably be:

 

                                                  Oneness

                                   Freedom                Love         

                            ..........         ...........      ..........      .............. 

 

in that case it's important to know the personal balance of how important love and freedom each are for the individual

[Leo Gura]

Consciousness is way more flexible than that. Your values could be almost anything.

Rape could be your top value.

[Lyubov]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Consciousness is way more flexible than that. Your values could be almost anything.

Rape could be your top value.

The action of rape comes from a belief of lack though. Rape cannot exist without the belief of lack prior to it. There’s definitely an unlimited number of expressions but I would simplify what OP wrote even more personally and say they all come from one value.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

The action of rape comes from a belief of lack though. Rape cannot exist without the belief of lack prior to it.

Nope.

You could rape just for the joy of it.

And furthermore, you could frame any value as coming from lack. Why do value love? Because you lack it. This is not a quality analysis.

Edited May 23 by Leo Gura

[CARDOZZO]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You could rape just for the joy of it.

Leo, why do you often bring rape to your discussions? 

Is all about triggering people's perception of reality?

I know that you don't give a fuck but rape is on another whole level (humanly speaking).

 

[Lyubov]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Nope.

You could rape just for the joy of it.

And furthermore, you could frame any value as coming from lack. Why do value love? Because you lack it. This is not a quality analysis.

Every rapist I’ve ever heard of that told their story why they raped appeared to me to have a belief of lack behind why they raped. I obviously haven’t spoken to every rapist but that is how it looks to me. Do you have an example of a rapist who is rapping not based off a sense of lack or some belief of being not whole ? 

I wouldn’t say I value love though the way you framed it. I have an appreciation for it. True love to me comes from within and is always here. It’s not a commodity or an action that can be seen as valuable or not since it is value itself. I don’t really follow what you’re saying. 

[universe]

Imho freedom is overrated.

❤️

[Leo Gura]

52 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Do you have an example of a rapist who is rapping not based off a sense of lack or some belief of being not whole ? 

As I said above, you can frame anyone's actions as coming from lack. So this is not a strong point.

Do you love self-actualization? Then you are coming from a sense of lack. See how that works?

Edited May 24 by Leo Gura

[Lyubov]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As I said above, you can frame anyone's actions as coming from lack. So this is not a strong point.

Do you love self-actualization? Then you are coming from a sense of lack. See how that works?

I believe rape only comes from lack. Like I said I don’t believe it can exist without one experiencing a sense of lack. What would the opposite of that be? Rape can exist from one being in touch with their true value, oneness/wholeness?  From how I read / understand your post you claim it can exist from the opposite of what I’m saying or in some other way.

 

Edited May 24 by Lyubov

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

Do you have an example of a rapist who is rapping not based off a sense of lack or some belief of being not whole ? 

Not all rappers are rapists.

[Lyubov]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Do you love self-actualization? Then you are coming from a sense of lack. See how that works?

In a way all paths of self actualization start because one is misaligned and has a sense of lack, is out of touch with their true value. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

From how I read / understand your post you claim it can exist from the opposite of what I’m saying or in some other way

As a matter of fact it can.

Imagine a truly sinister demonic consciousness whose whole purpose for existence is to rape and torture people.

Consciousness is flexible enough to create such a creature. Whether it exists on Earth is irrelevant. And in fact such twisted minds have existed on Earth. They are just rare.

Edited May 24 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, CARDOZZO said:

Leo, why do you often bring rape to your discussions? 

To rouse you out of your slumber.

[Lyubov]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As a matter of fact it can.

Imagine a truly sinister demonic consciousness whose whole purpose for existence is to rape and torture people.

Consciousness is flexible enough to create such a creature. Whether it exists on Earth is irrelevant.

This is too woo woo for me now

I would ask you why does that creature believe it has to rape and torture?

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

This is too woo woo for me now

I would ask you why does that creature believe it has to rape and torture?

Actually, your position is the woo-woo one. My position is stark and clinical.

You claim that there is some magical force in the universe which prevents demonic minds, and I am telling you no.

A demon doesn't have to believe anything to rape you, just like a crocodile doesn't have to believe anything to eat you.

You are looking at this whole thing from too human a POV. Minds do not have to operate by human rules and norms.

I am trying to get your mind to be more flexible. Otherwise you will get stuck in narrow human norms. You should expand your mind to think like a demon.

Edited May 24 by Leo Gura

[Lyubov]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually, your position is the woo-woo one. My position is stark and clinical.

You claim that there is some magically force in the universe which prevents demonic minds, and I am telling you no.

A demon doesn't have to believe anything to rape you, just like a crocodile doesn't have to believe anything to eat you.

That’s not what I’m saying at all. You misunderstand me. 

There is no magical force which prevents you from believing you are lacking or unwhole, which is a lie, which I then reason is how the action of rape can only exist. 

Basically rape only occurs because it’s based off a lie “believing one is lacking / unwhole”, so if you are in touch with being whole and one, this action of rape cannot exist. 

 

 

Edited May 24 by Lyubov

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

There is no magical force which prevents you from believing you are lacking or unwhole, which is a lie, which I then reason is how the action of rape can only exist. 

No!

I am telling you to imagine a demonic mind which is not lacking anything. It just enjoys seeing others suffer. It isn't lying or dysfunctional. It just enjoys making people suffer like you enjoy ice cream.

You are not opening your mind enough.

Imagine that you are unwhole BECAUSE you haven't tortured anyone yet. And you will only become whole once you do.

Edited May 24 by Leo Gura

[Lyubov]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No!

I am telling you to imagine a demonic mind which is not lacking anything. It just enjoys seeing others suffer. It isn't lying or dysfunctional. It just enjoys making people suffer like you enjoy ice cream.

You are not opening your mind enough.

I don’t see it as a matter of closed mindedness. 

I see your example as superfluous to the reasonability of the conversation. We were discussing rape which is a real thing and I said woo woo because I think it veers away from the truthfulness of the conversation on the actuality of rape and this act people choose to commit. 

You give an example through the notion of a “demonic mind” that rapes. Why does that creature believe it has to rape and torture? What would it say? Why does it enjoy just making people suffer? 

I described in life how the action that humans do which we label as rape fundamentally exists, what have I said there you disagree with or believe is false? 

Edited May 24 by Lyubov