How to censor myself less? How to change core personality traits?

[Davino]

On 28/4/2024 at 8:14 PM, Clarence said:

One fault I have as an autistic person is that I am extremely rigid. It is harder for me than it is for the average person to change the way I think and do things.

I get you, I get along with autistic people throughout the spectrum.

The point is you would love to be free from inhibitions but in your case an acute social calibration is needed which precisely inhibits you more.

The only way out is in, you'll have to expose yourself to massive experience to rewire your whole brain and learn how to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations. I remember once when I was watching a professional actor doing solo performance in a theater. He said that improvisation is what takes more backwork, let that sink in. It's by massive experience that paths are walked and then you know how to navigate them as experiences repeat in life and also feel confident manage new situations with ease.

To help boost this process taking low doses of MDMA when going to a particularly social events or before a party, just to get a bit loose helps a lot. An autistic brain with MDMA usually becomes much more balanced, feely and flowing, a man with mdma becomes more girly and a girl with M becomes an explosion of emotions. See where I'm going? so maybe little doses of M will help you get a taste of how other people are feeling, the state they are in and then do all the hard difficult emotional work you don't wanna do, to make that state your default living stage.

Martial arts may also help you to break all the muscular tension built up on your body over the years. Any kind of sport will help, but martial arts will be the best.

[Clarence]

Thanks again to all of you ; @StarStruck, @Sugarcoat, @Bobby_2021, @Schizophonia, @Basman, @LastThursday, @Princess Arabia.

I'll see if I can make some adjustments.

I still wanted to ask, how do you feel or let go when you say something you later realize was not smart enough or was incorrect, or when somebody "hurts your feelings" and you really care about what they said? - I'm talking here on the forum especially.

I know it's not right, but I think I identify my sense of self more with the outside than the the inside, so all of this really touches me. How I feel and think I am is very dependant to the outside world (how people treat me, how I think I am perceived by others, what happens to me, the emotional reactions I have, etc).

As a result of that, I have no idea who I am from the inside. I can't even understand what "know who you are" means. For me it's very intangible and etheric/mental, and I can't put my finger on what that "me" as a human is. And I don't know how to developp a stronger sense of self. So if someone knows how a strong sense of self - a secure, independant, tangible sense of self - can be developped and what "who you are" as a human consciousness actually means, I'd be happy to hear.

(Who I am as God consciousness is far easier for me to grasp, just to clarify it is the human self only I am refering to).

[Clarence]

Thanks @Davino.

44 minutes ago, Davino said:

The only way out is in, you'll have to expose yourself to massive experience to rewire your whole brain and learn how to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations. […]

To help boost this process taking low doses of MDMA when going to a particularly social events or before a party, just to get a bit loose helps a lot.

It would be interesting to try MDMA. Though I guess it wouldn't be as efficient for writing on a forum. But I'll try exposing myself some more and see if I notice some improvement with time…

42 minutes ago, Davino said:

Martial arts may also help you to break all the muscular tension built up on your body over the years. Any kind of sport will help, but martial arts will be the best.

Interesting… but I'm even too autistic for martial arts. Such movements or screams don't compute in my brain. It's a bit like dancing - I absolutely can't connect music and body movements. It's quite an extreme disconnection I have.

[Davino]

8 minutes ago, Clarence said:

I still wanted to ask, how do you feel or let go when you say something you later realize was not smart enough or was incorrect, or when somebody "hurts your feelings" and you really care about what they said? - I'm talking here on the forum especially.

Don't give a fuck, be yourself. You are a slave to others, this is a sure path to misery. Being yourself at least gives some chance for honest living and fulfilling life

Quote

If you find yourself acting to impress others, or avoiding action out of fear of what they might think, you have left the path. 

Epictetus

 

9 minutes ago, Clarence said:

I know it's not right, but I think I identify my sense of self more with the outside than the the inside, so all of this really touches me. How I feel and think I am is very dependant to the outside world (how people treat me, how I think I am perceived by others, what happens to me, the emotional reactions I have, etc).

Stop being a kid, you ain't a victim of the world. You are lion and you'll have to survive, mommy and daddy ain't gonna be all your life with you, gotta wake up, survive, mature and do your life.

12 minutes ago, Clarence said:

As a result of that, I have no idea who I am from the inside. I can't even understand what "know who you are" means. For me it's very intangible and etheric/mental, and I can't put my finger on what that "me" as a human is. And I don't know how to developp a stronger sense of self. So if someone knows how a strong sense of self - a secure, independant, tangible sense of self - can be developped and what "who you are" as a human consciousness actually means, I'd be happy to hear.

Time will help you with that, it will take you more time than other people. This is the hand you have been dealt, now you can play it properly and accelerate the game. You will get to know yourself when you have no other choice but to fight for yourself, for your life, otherwise you will end up in the street and dying. This is what all adults do in the world, this is life. Get a professional duty, go live alone, clean the toilet, make your own food, talk to girls, go partying, get out of your mind and realize who Clarence is, your most authentic human self expression

 

[Clarence]

20 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Hmm, honestly I don't know what you're talking about.

Belgium is at the top right, look.

No no no no no @Schizophonia… Here you go, this one much better, with major cities and all  I don't even know how you could find such a map :p. Do they teach you that at school in France? 

[Davino]

4 minutes ago, Clarence said:

Though I guess it wouldn't be as efficient for writing on a forum. But I'll try exposing myself some more and see if I notice some improvement with time…

Get a taste and you will see how other people feel. Then try to incorporate that in your life and even use it in life event scenarios, not to talk on a forum most definetely.

5 minutes ago, Clarence said:

Interesting… but I'm even too autistic for martial arts. Such movements or screams don't compute in my brain. It's a bit like dancing - I absolutely can't connect music and body movements. It's quite an extreme disconnection I have.

Precisely SO

What do you think is meant by getting outside your comfort zone?

This is the emotional work you want to avoid. So either you stop desiring what you are desiring or do what you have to do to get what you want. Any other middle point is insanity. So get clear about that

[Bobby_2021]

43 minutes ago, Clarence said:

still wanted to ask, how do you feel or let go when you say something you later realize was not smart enough or was incorrect, or when somebody "hurts your feelings" and you really care about what they said? - I'm talking here on the forum especially.

Desensitize yourself. You have mental constructs that make you feel bad immediately after saying something stupid or annoying someone. You need to remove those mental constructs that make you feel bad for doing such stuff, atleast in part.

1. You feeling not smart is legit. You will not get everything right the first time no matter how smart you are.

You are correct in the sense you made a mistake. But you don't have to make yourself feel even worse for that mistake like adding fuel on fire. 

It's okay to even feel bad, but not for too long. Just move on. Take steps to correct yourself. Then be a little more correct next time.

2. You simply have to be okay with pissing off people. Actually do it. Even they will move on with life after a few seconds. It's in your mind that will make a big deal of it. Practice pissing off people. It's possible to go overboard with this, but that's not some you should worry about.

I don't know man, if you are scare about pissing off people, it's going to hold you back. Especially for small and minute stuff like this. 

You will be pissing off people simply by existing. There is no way out of it. Most people's existence itself is enough to piss me off. You have a right to exist and deserve to have space in the social system to engage with it. It also includes the right to offend people. We human being survive by pissing each other off. It's no big deal. 

And also, no one really cares about how smart you look except for you. It's good to talk smart, but other people usually don't take note of how smart you look. Only worry about impressing the right kind of smart people. Most people are dumbfucks.

[Bobby_2021]

You also have to comfortable being wrong, not just in privacy but also in front of other people.

You should understand that the world is forgiving enough for you to improve. They understand that you need time to improve. No one even expects you to be perfect all the time.

Perfection is not an expectation. Being good enough is more than enough. Even showing up is already enough most of the times lol. 

While having high standards is necessary, it should not cripple you. You should exercise your rights. This is only how you can become a full fledged human. 

All these are the advices I gave myself when I was encountering the same problem. It should work well with you.

[Clarence]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Precisely SO

Hahahaha yes right

1 hour ago, Davino said:

What do you think is meant by getting outside your comfort zone?

This is the emotional work you want to avoid. So either you stop desiring what you are desiring or do what you have to do to get what you want. Any other middle point is insanity. So get clear about that

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Stop being a kid, you ain't a victim of the world. You are lion and you'll have to survive, mommy and daddy ain't gonna be all your life with you, gotta wake up, survive, mature and do your life.

It's hard for me to get that "fighter" mentality. I can't feel joy, desire, exctitement, etc. Pain and mental turmoil are bringing me down. I thought psychedelics could help switch and reverse that, but so far it hasn't work.

I have some difficulty believing that anything will help at this point, especially pushing myself more, as I can't find and feel anything that is motivating enough to be worth fighting for. Though I still haven't completely given up - or I would be dead.

I think major change could happen once I will move to my own place.

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, Clarence said:

I still wanted to ask, how do you feel or let go when you say something you later realize was not smart enough or was incorrect, or when somebody "hurts your feelings" and you really care about what they said? - I'm talking here on the forum especially.

You have ask yourself what you mean by "smart enough" or "incorrect". According to whose standard? If you really examine it it's always according to your own standard. It seems like disapproval comes externally from others, but the emotional reaction is always internal. To a large degree it's possible to control or regulate your emotional reaction. But it takes an awareness and lots of practice to do this. You can break those thought loops that keep prolonging the negative emotions. For the forum specifically, just step away for a day or two and let the emotion subside. Or, if you feel like stand your ground and fight back and give the emotions an outlet - do what comes naturally though don't force it.

Realistically, it doesn't matter how smart you are, there will always be someone smarter than you. That's life, give yourself a chance.

2 hours ago, Clarence said:

As a result of that, I have no idea who I am from the inside.

ASD is about dysfunction of theory of mind. Normies very quickly build up mental models about the potential thought processes and emotions of others - theory of mind - and they do this in real time. They even believe this mental model is "truth" and you hear a lot of "I know what he's thinking" as if mind reading were real.  It's a spectrum, some people are better than others at reading people. In my own life I have noticed a marked improvement in my ability to do this, but it's taken a lot of work and observation and focus.

This theory of mind is also reflexive, so you would have a mental model about what your own emotions and thoughts and actions mean. In other words, theory of mind is what gives you an identity and a strong sense of "self". It is ironic that many on this forum would like to achieve a state of "no self".

Edited April 30 by LastThursday

[Basman]

3 hours ago, Clarence said:

I still wanted to ask, how do you feel or let go when you say something you later realize was not smart enough or was incorrect, or when somebody "hurts your feelings" and you really care about what they said? - I'm talking here on the forum especially.

I just kind of wallow in it and then it goes away on its own after a while I guess. I rarely think about others in that way though. I do get what you mean because I often do this too, thinking "I think I could've said that better" but nowhere near to the same extent I think. I figured that I'm just a kind of an awkward person.

3 hours ago, Clarence said:

I know it's not right, but I think I identify my sense of self more with the outside than the the inside, so all of this really touches me. How I feel and think I am is very dependant to the outside world (how people treat me, how I think I am perceived by others, what happens to me, the emotional reactions I have, etc)

That is normal when you are young. Perhaps the autism makes that feeling more intense due to rumination.

3 hours ago, Clarence said:

As a result of that, I have no idea who I am from the inside. I can't even understand what "know who you are" means. For me it's very intangible and etheric/mental, and I can't put my finger on what that "me" as a human is. And I don't know how to developp a stronger sense of self. So if someone knows how a strong sense of self - a secure, independant, tangible sense of self - can be developped and what "who you are" as a human consciousness actually means, I'd be happy to hear.

(Who I am as God consciousness is far easier for me to grasp, just to clarify it is the human self only I am refering to).

When people talk about their internal states like "knowing themselves" the conversation is no longer in the realm of technical logic. It is inherently emotional and people who talk like this are just expressing a feeling more or less. There is no coherent logic to suss out, especially since different words mean different things to people. I wouldn't worry too much of what all this means if you find it more confusing than helpful.

Have you considered journaling your thoughts whenever you are in this "mind spiral" moods? Getting it out on paper takes a bit of the wind out of the intensity of these emotions.

[NoN-RaTiOnAL]

you need to expose yourself to situations which require you to react quickly - this will force you to go out of your rigid mind. 
one fault a rigid mind has is that it has to think about everything in advance. 

join an improv classs. its great and usually filled with people who will be very kind toward your mistakes. 
you will experience what you fear most, but in a safe container. it will help you tremendously. 
another option is pickup. just walk to girls on the street or start coversations with random people and try to keep the conversation going as long as you can. in time you will become more at ease with yourself, less anxiety = more sponteneity. this one is more risky, people might not be very kind towards you and you must learn to not take their reactions personally. 

[Clarence]

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

No one even expects you to be perfect all the time.

Yes… you're right, I'm the one expecting that from me. I also find it easier to forgive others for their mistakes than it is to forgive myself for mine.

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You simply have to be okay with pissing off people. Actually do it. Even they will move on with life after a few seconds. It's in your mind that will make a big deal of it. Practice pissing off people. It's possible to go overboard with this, but that's not some you should worry about.

I don't know man, if you are scare about pissing off people, it's going to hold you back. Especially for small and minute stuff like this. 

I'm not really scared about pissing people of because I'm careful not to most of the time, but I'm scared to be attacked by someone despite my effort not to be attacked, because it really hurt my self-esteem.

I know it's all in my mind, but somehow I can't break free from it. Right now we're having a sunny day which I've been waiting for months. Yet I can't feel joy, happiness or contentement, though I badly need it. I don't understand why my brain doesn't give me those positive feelings/neurotransmitters. It's tiring. Without that, my mind feels foggy and I'm not relaxed enough to get touched by others and still be calm and solid.

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You will be pissing off people simply by existing. There is no way out of it. Most people's existence itself is enough to piss me off. You have a right to exist and deserve to have space in the social system to engage with it. It also includes the right to offend people. We human being survive by pissing each other off. It's no big deal. 

I'm pretty judgmental myself… and I'm pissed off all the time. I think that plays a role in the judgment I also hold towards myself. What I can't allow to others, I can't allow to myself (for exemple, someone eating in a train drives me crazy; as a result, I won't eat in a train because I know how distressful that is - yet I will keep getting hurt by people eating in trains).

There are so many things I need to work on to make my life liveable it's overwhelming.

[Schizophonia]

7 hours ago, Clarence said:

Thanks @Davino.

It would be interesting to try MDMA. Though I guess it wouldn't be as efficient for writing on a forum. But I'll try exposing myself some more and see if I notice some improvement with time…

Interesting… but I'm even too autistic for martial arts. Such movements or screams don't compute in my brain. It's a bit like dancing - I absolutely can't connect music and body movements. It's quite an extreme disconnection I have.

MDMA will make autism worse.

7 hours ago, Clarence said:

No no no no no @Schizophonia… Here you go, this one much better, with major cities and all  I don't even know how you could find such a map :p. Do they teach you that at school in France? 

I like you but please stop confusing people on this forum with your imaginary country. 

Funny joke that said. 
Also, if you are Flemish, ask your cousins to stop joining the "Germans" team to form an army of several tens of thousands of panzers mobilhome every summer with the only aim of invading the south of France. (without spending a single euro with local traders)
Thank you in advance my friend 

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Clarence said:

I'm scared to be attacked by someone despite my effort not to be attacked, because it really hurt my self-esteem

To be honest, it does hurt. I am not immune from it either. People do not argue in good faith. But it is what it is.

2 hours ago, Clarence said:

Right now we're having a sunny day which I've been waiting for months. Yet I can't feel joy, happiness or contentement, though I badly need it. I don't understand why my brain doesn't give me those positive feelings/neurotransmitters. It's tiring. Without that, my mind feels foggy and I'm not relaxed enough to get touched by others and still be calm and solid.

I am wondering why that is. All I need is a good day of nice weather and I forget everything. Cloudy, Dark, Early morning, evening are all vibes. 

2 hours ago, Clarence said:

I'm pretty judgmental myself… and I'm pissed off all the time. 

That's literally my entire life. It means that you are disagreeable to the core, despite the nice image you wear over yourself in a social setting.

You rank high on sensitivity. This sensitivity will spot more things in it's radar which means you are more likely to get pissed off. It means that you need to exert greater control over your own life to dictate the life circumstances you are exposed to. 

Your personality is literally exactly that of mine a couple of years ago, before I engaged in desensitization. 

For example I get anxiety from work messages or even emails. I knew that this is not healthy. So I explored the reason for such micro triggers, destroyed old mental constructs causing the fear, made mental constructs in it's place. Now I am more of less okay with. 

It's hard to walk through life like walking on egg shells. 

[Clarence]

6 hours ago, LastThursday said:

You have ask yourself what you mean by "smart enough" or "incorrect". According to whose standard? If you really examine it it's always according to your own standard. It seems like disapproval comes externally from others, but the emotional reaction is always internal. To a large degree it's possible to control or regulate your emotional reaction. But it takes an awareness and lots of practice to do this. You can break those thought loops that keep prolonging the negative emotions.

Yes, I'm conscious it is from my standard and that it is very arbitrary. I also think I have a lot of awareness of my thoughts and feelings, but I don't know how to control them. Maybe it's a matter of technique which I still have to find. When you say it's possible to control and regulate your emotional reaction, do you have something specific in mind on how to do it?

7 hours ago, LastThursday said:

ASD is about dysfunction of theory of mind. Normies very quickly build up mental models about the potential thought processes and emotions of others - theory of mind - and they do this in real time. They even believe this mental model is "truth" and you hear a lot of "I know what he's thinking" as if mind reading were real.  It's a spectrum, some people are better than others at reading people. In my own life I have noticed a marked improvement in my ability to do this, but it's taken a lot of work and observation and focus.

This theory of mind is also reflexive, so you would have a mental model about what your own emotions and thoughts and actions mean. In other words, theory of mind is what gives you an identity and a strong sense of "self". It is ironic that many on this forum would like to achieve a state of "no self".

Indeed, I can't make a model of what my thoughts, emotions and actions mean…

I also had to learn to read people and I think I got quite good at it. Someone made me realize not long ago that neurotypical people were not as attuned to reading micro-expressions and body language as I am. It's like if I over-compensated with what I didn't have naturally. But it's quite annoying to be that observant. I think it holds me back, because I'm in my mind observing rather than reacting and living.

5 hours ago, Basman said:

Have you considered journaling your thoughts whenever you are in this "mind spiral" moods? Getting it out on paper takes a bit of the wind out of the intensity of these emotions.

I've tried in the past. I did notice relief on the moment, but the ruminations would come back shortly after, so I didn't keep a positive memory of journaling. But if I don't find other options, I will eventually give it a second chance.

Thanks for your above explanations.

5 hours ago, NoN-RaTiOnAL said:

you need to expose yourself to situations which require you to react quickly - this will force you to go out of your rigid mind. 
one fault a rigid mind has is that it has to think about everything in advance. 

join an improv classs. its great and usually filled with people who will be very kind toward your mistakes. 
you will experience what you fear most, but in a safe container. it will help you tremendously. 
another option is pickup. just walk to girls on the street or start coversations with random people and try to keep the conversation going as long as you can. in time you will become more at ease with yourself, less anxiety = more sponteneity. this one is more risky, people might not be very kind towards you and you must learn to not take their reactions personally. 

Those are great suggestions. I think it would be good for me to find an activity like this, but one that suits my personality. I don't have much idea right now of what I could do instead of pick-up or improvisation, but there definitely must exist something.

(I would stand out too badly in an improvisation class. I'm not ready for that. I couldn't even say a single word.)

[Clarence]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

MDMA will make autism worse.

Why? I'm not very familiar with MDMA.

P.S. I'm from the Ardennes and I don't speak Flemish, so I can't help 

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

It means that you are disagreeable to the core, despite the nice image you wear over yourself in a social setting.

I don't think that's how I am, but I have many triggers as I have over-sensitive senses and as I quite dislike stupidity. That makes me an agreeable judging person 

Even though I judge people in my head, I never express it and I feel guilty for having those thoughts. They come to me even though I don't want to be judgmental. So I'm both judmental and accepting of other's limitations at the same time, if that makes sense.

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You rank high on sensitivity. This sensitivity will spot more things in it's radar which means you are more likely to get pissed off. It means that you need to exert greater control over your own life to dictate the life circumstances you are exposed to. 

Your personality is literally exactly that of mine a couple of years ago, before I engaged in desensitization. 

For example I get anxiety from work messages or even emails. I knew that this is not healthy. So I explored the reason for such micro triggers, destroyed old mental constructs causing the fear, made mental constructs in it's place. Now I am more of less okay with. 

It's hard to walk through life like walking on egg shells. 

Did you follow a particular process to desensitize yourself? Was it all done through thinking? And did you do that all by yourself? It's hard for me to picture what you did exactly that worked.

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Clarence said:

Why? I'm not very familiar with MDMA.

The problem in general when you are on the autism spectrum (asperger) is that you function as a person who identifies himself through objects of a severe but integrated deeply form of anxiety (therefore without significant resistance). So, you will be regularly obsessive and annoy people with your obsessive interests, have difficulty entering a state of "low stress" and therefore sharing, euphoria (or at least « neurotypical calm ») etc.

I don't recommend drugs, but the best to help you (if you really want to experiment, Hummm...) will be the downers. In particular alcohol (toxic!), some GABAergic products (some benzodiazepines, Z Drugs, GHB/GBL), small doses of opioids (such as Kratom for example), antihypertensives (e.g. clonidine), according to people Cannabis, certain antidepressants (e.g. buspirone), atypical neuroleptics (e.g. Quetiapine/Seroquel), some antihistamines in particular anti-serotoninergic (e.g. cyproheptadine)

MDMA will make your selfish autistic thoughts, OCD etc. worse. It will also give you a very sexual, sensual, non-serious vibe. From the outside you may seem really strange.

It might be a cool experience lol, but not if the goal is to break away from neurotypicality for a while.

Edited April 30 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Clarence said:

P.S. I'm from the Ardennes and I don't speak Flemish, so I can't help 

 

C’est pas grave, je t’aime quand même le Belgix. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30 by Schizophonia

[LastThursday]

16 hours ago, Clarence said:

When you say it's possible to control and regulate your emotional reaction, do you have something specific in mind on how to do it?

Yes. The best way is by interruption. When we have an emotional reaction, it's like our bodies are running an automatic program. Something external triggers our emotion and then a whole cascade of things happen. We have thoughts and feelings and behave in certain ways.

Imagine someone had upset you, and you begin to have a strong emotional reaction. Suddenly, your smoke alarm goes off and you can smell something burning. Do you continue to have the upset emotional reaction, or do you panic and check if your house is on fire?

The idea then, is to build up enough awareness that you're being triggered, and then interrupt the program yourself. There are many many ways you could do it. Maybe you get triggered and instead of sitting there and being upset, you go out for a run instead, or you watch an engaging film or whatever. Get creative. Basically, do something else that grabs your attention strongly.

If you do this kind of thing enough, then your brain learns to re-program itself.

16 hours ago, Clarence said:

But it's quite annoying to be that observant. I think it holds me back, because I'm in my mind observing rather than reacting and living.

Yes, it's a bit like being on holiday and trying to talk to someone in a foreign language by using a phrase book. It's very possible to observe without "using a phrase book" but it takes practice. Practice by observing, but let the sensations just wash over you without analysis. Observing happens "out there" not "in here". Constantly push your attention outwards away from yourself.

Edited May 1 by LastThursday