Is Professor Mearsheimer saying that the end of the world is coming soon?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

(I'm watching him for the first time)

Where have you been?

[Hardkill]

On 4/25/2024 at 8:40 PM, Leo Gura said:

Meh...

The world is still more peaceful and civilized than ever.

Pundits gotta invent problems otherwise they'd be out of a job.

Be careful with this doomerism porn.

 

On 4/25/2024 at 9:07 PM, Bobby_2021 said:

@Leo Gura The world was far more peaceful during 2009-19 than during the last 4 years. 

Africa is in a crisis. There are missiles facing Europe and Russia. China might invade Taiwan, Iran might block the shipping in red sea.

Defence spending is on rise all across the world. I bet they are not buying weapons en mass for "peaceful purposes".

It's usually calm before a storm. 

Yeah, I agree with Bobby. The world has been more unstable than it has been in a long time. 

What do you predict will eventually happen to the world in a more positive note even when taking into account everything that professor Mearsheimer has said?

[Bobby_2021]

45 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

What do you predict will eventually happen to the world in a more positive note even when taking into account everything that professor Mearsheimer has said?

As prof Mearsheimer said, if there were a solution, we would be talking about it. There is no way out of it at the moment.

The fate rests upon the will of political leaders to make sensible decisions. Right now they are entirely disconnected from the minds if the general populace.

Anyone who disagree with them is marked a Russian propagandists, anti liberal, anti democratic, anti Semitic etc.

So you would be the bad guy to even suggest a solution, let alone gather the will to make it happen. You might even end up in their hit list. Not even kidding.

[Hardkill]

10 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

As prof Mearsheimer said, if there were a solution, we would be talking about it. There is no way out of it at the moment.

The fate rests upon the will of political leaders to make sensible decisions. Right now they are entirely disconnected from the minds if the general populace.

Anyone who disagree with them is marked a Russian propagandists, anti liberal, anti democratic, anti Semitic etc.

So you would be the bad guy to even suggest a solution, let alone gather the will to make it happen. You might even end up in their hit list. Not even kidding.

What would FDR, Lincoln, or Washington do?

What would Winston Churchill do?

Edited April 29 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

The world has been more unstable than it has been in a long time. 

Your view is too narrow and short.

[Bobby_2021]

5 hours ago, Hardkill said:

What would FDR, Lincoln, or Washington do?

What would Winston Churchill do?

They would interested in dialogue and negotiations, which is absent from our leaders nowadays. 

Right now, US has the attitude of either you comply with what we say or get hit with sanctions. They are still living off of the winner status they got from the cold war and don't yet realise that regional hedgemons are popping up that makes this of dominance unfeasible.

This kind of my way or the highway is what got us into the trouble in the first place. We need more dialogue and discussion and common sense as opposed to polarization and domination.

Edited April 29 by Bobby_2021

[Karmadhi]

On 26/04/2024 at 8:52 PM, Leo Gura said:

Mearsheimer is a reasonable guy

Do you think he is objective or bit Anti US?

I have seen tons of stuff and he criticizes a ton the US. But i rarely see him criticize Russia or Putin for example. USA are not angels but Russia is neither. 
Or is his job to point out the US bs since he is from there?

 

[Bobby_2021]

@Karmadhi What's all this both sideisms? There are no both sides to this.

It you poke a bear and it mauls you, there isn't much to the story but that. Blaming the bear for how bad it is or for how bad the snake for biting you back isn't doing much to add to the conversation.

The point is not go around poking it, especially when you have been warned not to.

[tvaeli]

To be strong:

• Truly ethical people are not attacked so much by any side of the war, as they bring diplomatic process. If war is coming, the loss of such people can be big, but it's completely random. Make sure you are on a side, which generally wins in case the war is coming or in case it's not. In the karmic end of reincarnation series, and in the dna and cultural victory, the "good side" is going to win anyway, even with big losses. More integrated people do less things, which are seen criminal by any side of the war.
• The war is coming mainly if the very positive people are sure that their world won't end, and not listening to all sides, and not considering that they have outcast all the people, who think differently, as they are so positive about their own theory. The part of us, who is not so positive and lives through all the war right now, and finds higher unified theories of the humankind, they somewhat keeps the war away and this is better karma. I see that positive people do not want to be responsible about how much they have messed up the relations, and I have nothing to do with this - usually, I'm quite contra-wars, but with all the crimes done by different sides, I have no strong arguments this time, something has to change to avoid the war, but it's cold fact that russians, muslims, jews and christians are all somewhat hurt and there are a lot of things to protect the positions with militar force, unless the revolution in thinking and friendship of cultures is very big - so, considering this cold fact, I cannot say something very deep to show for example to russians, that they have not been attacked at all, but I can do some work with these unified theories of humankind. The diplomatic side, which for example weakens the positions of people, who have mistreated the russians or the muslims completely against the truth of being neutral and managing the attackers directly, not creating some "general image" of blood, religion or other factors illegal to be used as war arguments ..diplomatic process is very hard, when the violence has got so far, and for example the communist positions are considered illegal, not certain concrete activities of concrete communists, which you can doubt. I have integrated the main facts of communist and capitalist. Russians always consider honour and help the poor, they are more materially social and helpful - psychologically, they get beaten in capitalist environment, which is incapable to do such exceptions to them. Thus, as I see the russian situation in ukraine, I am very silent about the war of ukraine, and rather seeking the solution for this conflict between the capitalist and the socialist, or the communist, which is deeper root - but with closed economics etc., I can see that it's more and more hard to solve it completely. I see that positive people did not see any problem at all, avoiding such things like fear and anger, and going blindly in direction of war being sure they can convince others in their philosophy - I would like to tell russians that such people can manage themselves, and let the others be, but I don't find such reality, where the russians are respected with their culture in other countries. This culture is different and even when they are capitalist, considers the good and bad lessons learnt in times of communism.
• Best parts of all sides of the war need to create good karmic connections and somehow manage that some part of us survives the war. After the war, it's possible that there are no resources to build up the civilization again so soon. The feeling of "safety" achieved by those means, it would get us further in achieving the good psychology of the war - there is not much more left, just some hope. But with this hope, we must work a lot

[tvaeli]

8 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

As prof Mearsheimer said, if there were a solution, we would be talking about it. There is no way out of it at the moment.

The fate rests upon the will of political leaders to make sensible decisions. Right now they are entirely disconnected from the minds if the general populace.

Anyone who disagree with them is marked a Russian propagandists, anti liberal, anti democratic, anti Semitic etc.

So you would be the bad guy to even suggest a solution, let alone gather the will to make it happen. You might even end up in their hit list. Not even kidding.

The original poster wanted to point out this is what we mean by an end of the world. It's not much worse. When nuclear war depletes the resources of humankind so that we cannot get up any more, it's an end of the world as we know it, what we used to think when we said "humankind" and "the world", it is dead, and has another, lesser life in the hell. This is the material evidence ..spiritual people, indeed the closest archetype, they see they are endangered with the end of the world.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Do you think he is objective or bit Anti US?

He is too pro-US actually.

Mearsheimer wants the US to use geopolitics to maintain its dominant position at the expense of other nations like China.

The only reason Mearsheimer opposes the Ukraine war is because he thinks it is taking attention and resources away from playing hardball with China.

Mearsheimer's whole aim is to maintain US hegemony. Which is where his philosophy breaks down.

Edited April 29 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

He is too pro-US actually.

Mearsheimer wants the US to use geopolitics to maintain its dominant position at the expense of other nations like China.

The only reason Mearsheimer opposes the Ukraine war is because he thinks it is taking attention and resources away from playing hardball with China.

   And in exchange for being too pro America, and speaking out against the Ukraine war he gets smeared and defamed by the same side:

 

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Mearsheimer's whole aim is to maintain US hegemony. Which is where his philosophy breaks down.

I don't think he is super fixated on it. On the one hand he accepts that it's what countries do by virtue of their own nature.

Bu he is generally accepting of a multi polar world.

But China is a force to be reckoned with. Not militarily, but strategically. They are exceptional at getting stuff done. They have a balance of top down control vs freedom in the Market. They are not burdened by democracy or bureaucracy. 

Have to see how this would pan out.

[tvaeli]

Actually, I think the end of the world is coming soon:

• One possibility is the war, which ends the world as we know it, leaving us to world depleted of resources, which possibly cannot give rise to new civilization with equivalent strength and outlook. This is the negative scenario - end of the humankind and it's ego as we know it.
• Other possibility is a grand sociopsychological shift, a rise of new consciousness, which is able to avoid this war. This is also end of the world, because our social superego as we know it would not exist any more, and so this personality would die and then, rise as Phoenix or the legendary Viking god, who died on the battlefield, but did not give up. This is, we transcend our philosophy and give rise to a new society - an old society would be dead; this is the positive end of the world as we know it.

Without something being brought to the end, I cannot see the future any more. It's either the hell of a paradise, where we then end up, but it's not "the earth" any more, as we know the earth.

It would be also the fire coming from the sky etc., as bombers really do this. Materialist thinking tends to perceive that there will be dramatic change in the material sciences, when the spiritual sciences are true and the visions really hold; I am spiritual person and I really live every day in the world, where my spiritual views really hold, but the measurements about the materials are about the same. I speak within the spiritual metaphors, I see the spiritual higher truth holding in all the politics and life, but it's another model of the same laws materialists are talking about, I do not see a dramatic change in material measurements of the matter, where spiritual or religious theories hold - it's still the same, old, world and continues it's habitual, boring patterns; I have seen many miracles, but if I really want, I could explain them in terms of psychology, material laws, evolution etc. This materialist theory that spiritual and religious people are talking about completely different world, which would change their material laws - this should be debunked. A spiritual girl, where being spiritual and being girl makes one follow more emotions than rational truth - they might really talk about dramatic things, which happen, and they might lose track with material events. In reality, if there is the end of the world, most probably it has to do with either tanks or natural disasters; the only end of the world Bible talks about, the story of Noah - it has nothing unnatural, it's simply a natural disaster and one man with good intuition. I always follow different theories and I like the material theories, and I often fix my spiritual sciences with these material observations and facts, because I do not see any reason, why a spiritual, higher principle would break any material law; this is a grand illusion coming somehow from history, where the Pope really could not connect the existence of God and roundness of Earth, but from existence of God it's hard to really prove that an Earth must be flat. If we see something with our senses, rather it's there and it does not go away if it really turns out that yang in extreme breaks and becomes yin - this happens in entirely different plane. Even the principles of Karma, when you follow the theories of business or energies to the end, you must see it's simply the same with the material laws. So my case of being spiritual, it's simply spiritual and I do not expect I would do a major breakthrough in material sciences with some spiritual fact - rather, spiritual fact exists in our world perfectly synchronized with it's material counterpart, like activity of brain is really synchronized with activity of thought, making the thoughts not false and not claiming that by proving the validity of some of your thoughts, you would disprove your brain. I think spiritual principles hold and by following these, you can be much more efficient in some aspects of the world, because for you it's simple what other people see as complex, composed of many different principles. You feel energy because you see the positive outlook of your spiritual activities - materialist also feels energy, when they have been eaten, are not sick, and are not depressed and have positive outlook in their life; with all their materialist theories, they feel energy and they say energy. When you make all this with your spiritual theory, you also feel energy. I'm not surprised if a man, following the game theory, materialist mathematical theory of life, into the end, would simply reach good karma and create some kind of heaven around him, thus also reaching this loka.

This being said, I do not understand, why this would not be the same end of the world the spiritual people are talking about, when our world ends in the material laws. The material scientists telling that spiritual principles break their laws and must talk about different world, they must be debunked - it's the same world with the same laws, and scientific criterias are quite enough to believe that a miracle does not break material laws. Birth is a miracle, life is a miracle, rising sun and spring are miracles - none of them breaks a material law. Sometimes, really deep and grand miracles happen to me, but I cannot find any specific material law being broken; rather, it's my spiritual view, which makes it a miracle - it's some great positive outcome of my life, which follows from my advancement in following the spiritual laws. If they manage to create climate on another planet, an ecosystem, materialist would also feel the miracle and draw heavenly pictures.

The spiritual theories came from careful observation of the material world, it's real facts and hidden meanings, and when one observes, they see just the same world; if you observe it scientifically, it's just the same world. Spiritual theories did not come from somehow breaking the natural life cycle and then observing this result. Somewhat it's true that you transcend the world and then, your spiritual theories are slightly more beautiful than materialist would see - but when materialist gets rich or brings better laws and rules, they also transcend the material world and cannot speak of completely the same laws they spoke about before. I think this is nonsense that many of the described miracles somehow break the natural laws of materials and brain alchemy - if the miracle is, you see the world in different light, as in enlightenment, and you start living a different life, or you manage to provide this to someone else; very materially, it's not very different. Materialist, also, when they generalize their lives and get new experiences, they become enlightened - times of Renaissance and enlightenment in Europe, those happened in rational terms, with politics and ecosystems, but they were enlightenments, and also changed the material courses of events in lives of people; the change was great, but no material laws were broken.

I also experience some miracles, which I cannot explain with materialist laws, so the principles of spiritualism hold to the end; materialists also speak of events they cannot connect to all the known general laws; all the time they see something they have to explain. This does not break the method of science that it has not measured this yet, it's rather normal for science that in every area, there are open problems. In area of spirituality, there are open problems as well, but most of the things completely fit with theories of psychology, physics and chemistry. From spirituality, no way that it comes out that your senses about the material world and it's principles are completely wrong - we invent better models to live, and we see more general underlying principles, but this also applies to all sciences. Why we like spiritual views is that they give special value to life and that they are more natural to our personal psychology, but they do not disprove our five senses. Sixth sense does not disprove the five senses, it only transcends the experience; and very advanced logic and life vision is also a sixth sense and does the same, so this also happens to materialist that they transcend. And, in the end, spiritual sciences definitely are the cutting edge in their own area of research, and they make conclusions materialist cannot make merely with their theories alone - but the same way, you cannot explain every process of chemistry in terms of physics of particles, every branch of research takes it's principles to the cutting edge. So, despite the material law holds, it's really hard to explain the realm of perception and the sharp ends of the spiritual theories and principles; but it's also quite impossible they totally debunk a case carefully observed by the other. This materialistic view, it should be debunked

So the end of the world is the end of the world, no bells and whistles - a normal war or a catastrophe. And, there are the spiritual causes and effects spiritual people have seen in their visions, and cannot explain in their material terms; more probably, somebody would later explain them with game theory.

[tvaeli]

This materialist view that they can debunk spiritual theories by facts like the world is round and the planets rotate around the sun; this really does not hold in this century. The scientific view introduced many new concepts about more neutral and efficient observation, and for many spiritual people, who cannot be cutting edge in every field, it's still to be learned - I somewhat pain about the girls, who really talk in ways, which do not fit into all the facts, based solely on their intuition, but the same time, I learn new things from them, ignoring the mess with material evidence and exact scientific terms - but the materialist girls, the make same kind of mistakes, following their feelings more than rational thought, and many materialists hardly understand anything after Newton, telling me that Theory of Relativity has three, not four, dimensions, and things like that, which really do not fit my spiritual views. For spiritual people, they knew before materialists, that there must be parallel dimensions etc., and we have people to who we need to attribute the original theories we use. Materialist does not believe easily that the theory of Schröedinger Cat and quantum shift does extend to the case where, in our perceived world, the history unfolds in ways similar to the future, and what we have not measured, has some space for probability - in our senses, we see that we tune into some kind of world and then, it appears. The quantum physics hardly goes that far with the fact; anyway, the perception and it's connections with the facts are still a hard science and these effects so subtle that they are hard to measure. Also, we give different meanings to the facts based on the future and there are more effects doing similar things, which we could really explain with the newton science. A whole model is so large that we cannot see, how the thing goes together with material sciences - spiritual people measure many things as we perceive them, and give higher meaning to perception and lower meaning to material processes involved; because our brain alchemy, it shows a different picture based on meaning and relevance of the fact, and we see it in different colors when the underlying reality is different - it's another model of the world, which looks at the consitution of psychological facts, and the relevance in the life, so we use some dream symbolics to explain our reality, and pay attention to perceived effects we see, like sudden feeling that somebody is watching from the place, where there are nobody - it is psychologically important fact when realized properly, but in materialistic sense, it's so subtle that it's not even a hallucination, it's just a noise in perception. We need not to mess the models together, and it's more healthy to understand the material reality and it's causes and effects and use different words for such perception, but in the spiritual model, it's a process of brain decoding the reality, and when it's not messed with material models, it shows it very well - dreams definitely come from our unconsciousness and meaningful connections, not from some unnatural, disproven source, and definitely, when we have psychological problems, we cannot trust our dreams so much, but when our psychology is healthy, they bring us some clarified conclusions about our lives, and we cannot reach conclusions so good with other processes of our brains. It's better to be complete and give meaning and significance to all our natural processes, and think also in terms of evolution and instincts - if you can explain feeling of danger with evolutionary instinct, you can also explain fear of God with the same thing, and in both cases, you can also be sick and disoriented, with weaker perception of reality, and in all cases, when you solve your experiences properly and talk with such people in meaningful manner, understanding that they simply cannot understand the solution, and they are still humans, you have chances to bring them back to their minds. I think having philosophy about the will of God, doubting and looking for personal understanding, instead of following it blindly, it's the modern solution for the believers, as they have to grow more mature. Blind following of God is lack of philosophy, and it should not insult God if his word is clarified with deep doubt and philosophy - rather, we grow up, and God is spiritually equal to us, as higher and lower entities are equal, in true sense of equality. So He is also to be doubted, and the philosophy, skepticism and scientific means are to be applied, so that we get a clarified message and grow with our own speed, not blindly believing in something higher than us. Everybody has this space for following the models they can somehow understand, and not the ones, which are far more complex and superior - this does not bring you closer to truth, but it brings you closer to the personal truth, and away from madness, which is following the more complex model than you are able to. We give only some respect for authority, like scientist saying something in their own area is probably more trustworthy than the one saying something about different area, even if you cannot understand every nuance. Pope probably knows more about God than an atheist, so an atheist could deceive you more in this area, when you listen to their perverse image of stone-age God looking for inequality and power; barbarians, in their way to follow the God, probably created such force in their lives so that they could not escape.

[tvaeli]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I don't think he is super fixated on it. On the one hand he accepts that it's what countries do by virtue of their own nature.

Bu he is generally accepting of a multi polar world.

But China is a force to be reckoned with. Not militarily, but strategically. They are exceptional at getting stuff done. They have a balance of top down control vs freedom in the Market. They are not burdened by democracy or bureaucracy. 

Have to see how this would pan out.

To win a battle, you must also lose it. You need to learn about Konfucianism, Taoism and Buddhism, and how you break the rules Chinese probably trust more or less. You need to come our from the state, where you are criminal in their sense, so that they cannot attack you with the valid part of their philosophy. Thus, by giving up, you create yourself some chances to win - either to win your probability of survival when they invade you, or to produce higher philosophy, which releases the tension so much that they cannot attack you by their known law of nature. Also the communism is not so much more evil - giving a visitor a cup of tea and the cookies, having more natural and better-tasting food very often, with people helping each others and being poor resulting only from major sin, these are things hard to learn by a capitalist. If you manage to have more of those values, you are less in danger that they suddenly really hit you to some point, where you have bad karma. I think the mistake of positive capitalist is being so sure in their complete victory forever - in the Law of Karma of War, as long as we do not transcend our battles, so that we are beaten psychologically long before being beaten in war, the war would go on forever and each side reaches a point, where the truth they perceive is weak in the world and thus they achieve power and victory in war; if you give up all those battles, or rather wars, even with enemies you truly dislike, and you reach better understanding in their powers, things they accuse you, this circle of war becomes weaker, and it becomes a circle of spiritual or psychological war, which really defeats and not enslaves - by being defeated, getting rid of this positivity and greed, you avoid being in slavery of the fact you did not understand. As long as capitalist does not give up to communist, and a communist to the capitalist; a jew does not surrender a muslim God and a muslim to the jewish God - the bad karma of war exists, the tensions are balanced by war, and wars happen constantly, all sides winning for a period, as each side wins a war when the truth they represent is weak in the world and the other countries. As you listen to their critics, you give up, you give up to those shadows, you rise again and you integrate, what you have learnt - by this giving up, in your mind, the wars go on in their infinite cycle, but there are no real wars. Rather, the enemies, learning from the lessons, reach trust and love with each others and celebrate that they are keeping the different truths and living the different aspects of God.

[zazen]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I don't think he is super fixated on it. On the one hand he accepts that it's what countries do by virtue of their own nature.

Bu he is generally accepting of a multi polar world.

But China is a force to be reckoned with. Not militarily, but strategically. They are exceptional at getting stuff done. They have a balance of top down control vs freedom in the Market. They are not burdened by democracy or bureaucracy. 

Have to see how this would pan out.

The point about balance between state and market gets over looked as the often uninformed Western perspective clings to the notion of China being strictly communist and authoritarian and communism = failure = bad. The reality is more nuanced: China operates under a mixed economy paradigm that is almost its own thing and is beyond capitalism or socialism. 

Local governments play a big role to the point a political scientist terms their hybrid economy the 'mayor economy.' 

 

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

The point about balance between state and market gets over looked as the often uninformed Western perspective clings to the notion of China being strictly communist and authoritarian and communism = failure = bad. The reality is more nuanced: China operates under a mixed economy paradigm that is almost its own thing and is beyond capitalism or socialism. 

Local governments play a big role to the point a political scientist terms their hybrid economy the 'mayor economy.' 

 

Yup. Their markets have a lot in common with the western free markets more than most people like to admit. Same is true even for Russia. It's a market driven economy with the state stepping in at just the right to make the right decisions.

For ex you wouldn't see a housing crisis in China. Because the government will step in. Also when you consider how hardworking the average Chinese are compared to US, then it's going to be a whole different ball game.

P.S they don't even have an election for the US to rig in their favour. 😂

[Hardkill]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your view is too narrow and short.

 

11 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

They would interested in dialogue and negotiations, which is absent from our leaders nowadays. 

Right now, US has the attitude of either you comply with what we say or get hit with sanctions. They are still living off of the winner status they got from the cold war and don't yet realise that regional hedgemons are popping up that makes this of dominance unfeasible.

This kind of my way or the highway is what got us into the trouble in the first place. We need more dialogue and discussion and common sense as opposed to polarization and domination.

So, it's going to take about a decade or so of more pain and suffering for us to get through these serious global problems and learn better from them?

Edited April 29 by Hardkill

[Jodistrict]

That lecture by the former Chinese foreign minister was awesome.    Unfortunately, he won't be listened to by the crazies that control US foreign policy.