Shadow on the wall: Leo Gura’s Cave

[Enigma777]

I am sure most of you here are aware of Plato’s allegory of the cave and the shadows on the wall; representative of a state of absorption into illusion and a disconnection from truth, the real world, represented by the sun rays shining in the cavern. 

Too often, people in communities such as this one become infatuated with big, inflated ideas communicated by charismatic gurus and such figures. They unconsciously absorb worldviews and their whole perspective of reality become filtered through such worldviews, to the point where they encase themselves in a bubble of theories and concepts. They even adopt such ideas as dogma, parroting buzz words and catch phrases they learned from a certain figure, without truly being conscious of who they are as individuals and where they stand. They get absorbed by these ideas, and through such process, become prisoners of a cave, infatuated with shadows on a cave wall, disconnected from the real world and the materiality of things. 

To live infatuated with external figures and fancy ideas is to be a prisoner, and I suspect that it is the case of many individuals here. Many times, engagement with intellectual subjects is used as a compensation for a lack of ability to properly engage with the world. One thus becomes hyper intellectual as a way of compensating for their failure to properly adapt to the demands of life and allow their egos to become inflated by the highfalutin ideas they engage with, believing themselves to be superior or different from the rest of their human peers. 

The content that @Leo Gura shares online, as much as I myself like it, is especially dangerous for that kind of projection to happen. It can easily trap individuals into a conceptual world where they feel elevated and superior, while remaining stuck in a cave of conceptual thinking and lack of proper adaptation to actual reality. The ideas that Leo shares act as perfect psychic containers of projections by individuals who start identifying with such ideas. 

Also, it is important to note that whatever pathology a given guru exhibits, will be transferred unto and picked up by whoever follows such guru, because an identification with a given figure leads to psychological transference of both good and bad aspects of such figure. And we have already seen Leo in the past become highly inflated himself, reaching a point of arrogance that borders on delusion. I acknowledge that he has become aware of it and grew in wisdom throughout the years which is honourable, but the point still remains that being exposed to such content can easily lead maladapted and hyper intellectual individuals into further delusion. Leo’s ideas are exactly the kind that leads to such happening, and I haven’t seen him address this enough. 

I am not one of those people who will call Leo a cult leader, I am well aware of his work and respects it very much. I know that he has warned his followers throughout the years about certain dangers that I have outlined here but I just think he has failed to PROPERLY and thoroughly address this danger which I believe affects more people here than he may think.

That is why below are two videos from depth psychologists speaking about the very same dangers I’ve outlined but with the ideas of Carl Jung. But you could replace “Carl Jung” by “Leo Gura” or any other guru/teacher for that matter:

 

 

Edited April 24 by Enigma777

[Enigma777]

Also this video outlines the process of many individuals who engage with inflationary ideas in such a way:

 

[Princess Arabia]

Yes, so true. I've witnessed this and is also an example of this. I've went out on my own and made a few discoveries, even though it just happened but for languages sake. I have different pov's and speak within a particular way and all of a sudden I'm this neo advaita freak. I didn't even know that what I was saying belonged to some philosophical Spiritual Network or whatever you call it. It's just things that were noticed and things that seemingly fell away. 

When some changes have been made, it seems like it cannot come from what one recognizes or realizes for themselves, it has to be some other guru that told you and now you're parroting. Sometimes that's the case but not at all times. I've been accused of following people I don't even listen to and have been told I'm not the same like I used to be. Been told I'm not qualified to post on the forum because I don't do psychedelics or I cannot know certain things because I don't use them. Been told I need to meditate or else......(forgot why, because I didn't retain), been told in the dating section that I'm a woman so I can't be qualified to speak on certain things. All the while what I would speak about would go against or not what administrator teaches. I've been put to the side and argued with until administrator would say the same thing I said, and that was when they started agreeing with what I said.

It's very rampant here. Some can only share videos from administrator when trying to relate a message or will come on here and share only from one other guru about everything, and I mean everything. Some will say to me I'm advaita but administrator also says the same things in his videos but in a different context, but they are too trained to see it from a different perspective and will become blinded that it's the same thing. 

I asked a lot of questions on here and couldn't get any definitive answers and that's when I realized there really aren't any questions and not even any answers. Just more concepts and ideas and insights which were just loops upon loops upon loops and didn't get anywhere. I ranted a few times (jokingly), and expressed how i felt about the never-ending cycles, even though nobody really paid me any mind, which is good because I didn't want to have to relive those rants. 

This isn't about me, but I just wanted to point out that I do agree, but my two-cents is, it really doesn't matter because it's just the Absolute appearing as all those things. Here comes the Advaita freaks.

Edited April 24 by Princess Arabia

[Razard86]

13 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes, so true. I've witnessed this and is also an example of this. I've went out on my own and made a few discoveries, even though it just happened but for languages sake. I have different pov's and speak within a particular way and all of a sudden I'm this neo advaita freak. I didn't even know that what I was saying belonged to some philosophical Spiritual Network or whatever you call it. It's just things that were noticed and things that seemingly fell away. 

When some changes have been made, it seems like it cannot come from what one recognizes or realizes for themselves, it has to be some other guru that told you and now you're parroting. Sometimes that's the case but not at all times. I've been accused of following people I don't even listen to and have been told I'm not the same like I used to be. Been told I'm not qualified to post on the forum because I don't do psychedelics or I cannot know certain things because I don't use them. Been told I need to meditate or else......(forgot why, because I didn't retain), been told in the dating section that I'm a woman so I can't be qualified to speak on certain things. All the while what I would speak about would go against or not what administrator teaches. I've been put to the side and argued with until administrator would say the same thing I said, and that was when they started agreeing with what I said.

It's very rampant here. Some can only share videos from administrator when trying to relate a message or will come on here and share only from one other guru about everything, and I mean everything. Some will say to me I'm advaita but administrator also says the same things in his videos but in a different context, but they are too trained to see it from a different perspective and will become blinded that it's the same thing. 

I asked a lot of questions on here and couldn't get any definitive answers and that's when I realized there really aren't any questions and not even any answers. Just more concepts and ideas and insights which were just loops upon loops upon loops and didn't get anywhere. I ranted a few times (jokingly), and expressed how i felt about the never-ending cycles, even though nobody really paid me any mind, which is good because I didn't want to have to relive those rants. 

This isn't about me, but I just wanted to point out that I do agree, but my two-cents is, it really doesn't matter because it's just the Absolute appearing as all those things. Here comes the Advaita freaks.

The problem is you lack awareness that the things you study you parrot. Everyone has their own way of speaking, their own style. When you speak about Consciousness you don't speak of it in your own words, you speak exactly like people of specific schools. This means you haven't yet integrated it and personalized it from your point of view and added your own unique style.

Unless someone can speak from their own perspective and with their own words, they cannot profess to know a thing. Anybody can parrot a set of phrases, few can actually explain. The easy way out, the most convenient way is to say I don't have to make sense, if you don't make sense and cannot speak from the heart how can you claim to be authentic, and how can you even share anything.

Only truth can be shared, lack of truth, authenticity, cannot be shared because it is illusionary.

[enchanted]

20 hours ago, Enigma777 said:

Too often, people in communities such as this one become infatuated with big, inflated ideas communicated by charismatic gurus and such figures. They unconsciously absorb worldviews and their whole perspective of reality become filtered through such worldviews, to the point where they encase themselves in a bubble of theories and concepts. They even adopt such ideas as dogma, parroting buzz words and catch phrases they learned from a certain figure, without truly being conscious of who they are as individuals and where they stand. They get absorbed by these ideas, and through such process, become prisoners of a cave, infatuated with shadows on a cave wall, disconnected from the real world and the materiality of things. 

^^^this describes almost 100% of people in scientific, or religious, or nationalistic, communities.

But you are right that beliefs and guru worship is a trap to watch out for. 

[Princess Arabia]

49 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The problem is you lack awareness that the things you study you parrot. Everyone has their own way of speaking, their own style. When you speak about Consciousness you don't speak of it in your own words, you speak exactly like people of specific schools. This means you haven't yet integrated it and personalized it from your point of view and added your own unique style.

Unless someone can speak from their own perspective and with their own words, they cannot profess to know a thing. Anybody can parrot a set of phrases, few can actually explain. The easy way out, the most convenient way is to say I don't have to make sense, if you don't make sense and cannot speak from the heart how can you claim to be authentic, and how can you even share anything.

Only truth can be shared, lack of truth, authenticity, cannot be shared because it is illusionary.

This is just speculation and lack any merit. This is also a certain way of generalizing communicating to someone what you're trying to communicate. These words, your exact same words, could easily be said to anyone in the exact same way that you suspect haven't come to their own realization or who is parroting. It is not personable to me and doesn't reflect what you think you have personally observed with me. You have made an assumption and now the best you can do with that is say to me a generalized statement that you would say to anyone about this assumption. Meaning, there's nothing that you actually know in my case, you're assuming that I don't understand what I'm saying and now the text book of what to say to that is out. This is in itself A DOWNRIGHT INAUTHENTIC ACCUSATION, coming from assumptions.

You constantly mention Tony Parsons to me and i don't listen to Tony Parsons. I cannot stand how Tony Parsons communicates and i think I've only seen one or two of his videos outright, the others were just flipping through and j never really watch him.

Also, as of late the only thing I've mentioned about consciousness is that it's a dream and doesn't really exist because that is separation. I speak about the Absolute. Then you tell me I speak about consciousness as if.............. 

Also, you have made a claim that I'm studying. "The things you study, you parrot", you said. I didn't know watching a few videos was studying. How else can you say "The Absolute", how else can you say "Individual", how else can you say "no one", "this", "dream", "all there is", 'there's a me, or there's no me", "realization, recognition, "already", "energy", 'contraction", "body", "happening", "arises", "aliveness".....i mean, these are the kinds ordinary words that are being used and can barely be replaced with other ordinary words because they are so ordinary. When you've been in this field for a little bit there are just certain words you adapt, which just happens not because one is parroting or doesn't understand what they are saying.

Also, I have started a few threads explaining what I've come to realize without the help of the dictionary, looking through any phrases, or referring back to any teachings. I spoke fluently and within my speaking style. I speak so everyone can understand what I'm trying to communicate and most of the time without the use of fancy words that may be misleading. I speak clearly and articulate my words the same way I speak when I'm on any parts of the forum. My threads are usually pretty long and explanatory, in MO way shape or form can a "parroted" accomplish this without sounding repetitive and robotic. They are usually very personal and obviously not rehearsed and coming from a place of inauthenticity. If they were, I would deserve a gold medal for being able to relate something I'm parroting with "in-depthness" and able to start original threads about. 

I knew nothing about advaita before pretty much all you spiritual heads kept accusing me of being a school of except for hearing the term thrown around from time to time through videos or just in general from being into spirituality. Its not something I ascribed to or studied or whatever. What I've come to realize is that what I'm saying sounds like advaitas teachings and I still haven't even go searching for them out of curiosity because I don't need to. If anything it's more Jim Newman and his is not a teaching. I used to watch him a long time ago and stopped, and it's not until I started watching him again that his talks have took on a whole new meaning that I can relate to and understand a whole lot more and integrate because of all the other stuff i was exposed to. Kind of like watching a movie and every time you watch it something new is noticed or even reading a book. It is not something I'm parroting. Maybe some words are the sane but all that doesn't matter. I may have a different view on how you see things but you cannot tell me I'm just parroting without understanding what I'm saying and when ever I've responded you on the forum indepth you make no attempt to respond back to my statements which are obviously not parroted. I won't go over this long ass response so excuse the errors.

[Enigma777]

3 hours ago, enchanted said:

^^^this describes almost 100% of people in scientific, or religious, or nationalistic, communities.

But you are right that beliefs and guru worship is a trap to watch out for. 

I get what you’re saying and it is true, most people do live in a cave of some sort.

But I wasn’t referring to those people. Notice how people who are ideological and dogmatic can also be properly adapted to physical reality and relate properly to the external world. 

I was specifically referring to a process by which a socially maladapted individual becomes absorbed by inflationary ideas(ideas that lead to inflation of ego) leading him to lock himself in a conceptual world, remaining stuck in his fantasies while his physical life remains unactualized.

Leo speaks about such people. The people who listen to him and his big ideas and concepts while not having any kind of real world success and experience. 

But from a psychological perspective this issue goes way deeper than I’ve seen him address. It can create serious neurosis to be maladapted to physical reality while engaging with such ideas. And Leo Gura’s ideas are among the most inflationary you could possibly come accross so I wanted to highlight the danger for some people. Hence the videos that I linked, to help individuals in such a situation get out of it.

Edited April 25 by Enigma777

[abrakamowse]

Leo helped me a lot with his inflationary ideas hehehehe

 

Really I was coming from a big depressive episode and listening to him helped me understand what I was doing wrong in my search for my true self. 
 

I think ppl who doesn’t align with Leo’s ways of teaching won’t come here and if someone gets interested and for some reason goes crazy or does something bad… is because he was needing that. IMO.

Edited April 25 by abrakamowse