28 year old girl scheduled to die via AS due to depression

[Buck Edwards]

5 minutes ago, zurew said:

Thats stupid.

I made arguments in favour of not trying to treat these people, for the exact reason is because we are not educated and we have no clue how to treat them.

To be clear, Its you who are trying to play a kind of  doctor (who doesn't need to take any responsbility for their advice), not me. I already admitted that it is possible that blocking certain people from the forum can lead to negative effects , but the alternative where we play doctors is more irresponsible.

You're doing the same in reverse order. 

(all I'm trying to say is that it can have both positive and negative effects and I'm not advocating for either. I rest my case).. 

Edited April 26 by Buck Edwards

[Scholar]

15 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

You made some good points but specific points would have helped. I'm not sure what you're implying people are ignoring. 

I don't feel comfortable to go into detail on some of the points because I don't think that's the responsible thing to do in the context of this forum.

 

But beyond that, I want to encourage people to think about this more deeply themselves. In general, when it comes to autonomy vs harm-prevention, people tend to focus either on one or the other.

 

Freedom, in this case human autonomy, has an essential function to evolution. It confronts us, fundamentally, with aspects of our own human nature that we, prior to the freedom, had no opportunity to truly explore. This exploration will always involve mistakes and suffering, but it will expand our consciousness.

 

 

In this case it very much confronts us with what it means that there are people who want to kill themselves, and who can do so any time they want. You have to consider that in this case, the person already has the autonomy to do what they seek to do. In a way this is just a symbol for how helpless we as a society to truly prevent people from doing so.

It's easier to brush it all under the rug when it is happening unofficially. If people we truly free to kill themselves, maybe we would actually have to start caring about each other more than we currently do. Maybe we would need to fundamentally change how we coexist in society.

 

 

I think this is mainly a discussion about whether or not suicide ought to be taboo, even if people are not aware of it. But a taboo in many ways prevents us from looking at the situation honestly and ever being able to find a solution that will actually work.

We can observe the same with child predation and incest.

Edited April 26 by Scholar

[Buck Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I don't feel comfortable to go into detail on some of the points because I don't think that's the responsible thing to do in the context of this forum.

 

But beyond that, I want to encourage people to think about this more deeply themselves. In general, when it comes to autonomy vs harm-prevention, people tend to focus either on one or the other.

 

Freedom, in this case human autonomy, has an essential function to evolution. It confronts us, fundamentally, with aspects of our own human nature that we, prior to the freedom, had no opportunity to truly explore. This exploration will always involve mistakes and suffering, but it will expand our consciousness.

 

 

In this case it very much confronts us with what it means that there are people who want to kill themselves, and who can do so any time they want. You have to consider that in this case, the person already has the autonomy to do what they seek to do. In a way this is just a symbol for how helpless we as a society to truly prevent people from doing so.

It's easier to brush it all under the rug when it is happening unofficially. If people we truly free to kill themselves, maybe we would actually have to start caring about each other more than we currently do. Maybe we would need to fundamentally change how we coexist in society.

I get your point. Well spoken. 

@Scholar yes I read that too. You made legit points on harm prevention versus autonomy. 

 

Edited April 26 by Buck Edwards

[Scholar]

Just now, Buck Edwards said:

I get your point. Well spoken. 

I added a sentence to clarify why I am making these points.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

But along with therapy, if they wanted real help in a community in the sense of whatever support they need or life advice, I'm not against that either. What I'm against is boxing someone as mentally ill and being restrictive or making decisions for them on their behalf.

+1 ❤️

Greatly put.

Edited April 26 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Basman

On 2024-04-21 at 9:27 AM, Basman said:

https://www.thefp.com/p/im-28-and-im-scheduled-to-die

Terminal illness is one thing but this just seems like state mandated giving up. She is physically healthy and young. Thoughts?

   After many phases of thread derailing, from suicides to Neo Advaita versus other spiritual non-duality topics, to other topics related to euthanasia, let's bring it back to this OP's original post. SO! IMO, my thought is that this Psychiatrist, not state mandate just this psychiatrist and the local where she visits, has let her down tremendously! IDK why it's not an ethical issue of how this psychiatrist handled the ending of their session like that, just pessimistic nihilistic ending, without at least giving a hopeful statement to seek other kinds of help and not just robotically ending like there's NOTHING WE CAN DO FOR YOU LOLZ! So blatantly irresponsible communication that the ethics board and even Mr. Girl would have a field day grilling this guy and getting his license revoked!

   Also there's just not enough information to make out here. Like if it's true she has tried EVERYTHING which can include the following:

Tried psychiatrist.

Tried therapy modals like CBT, R.E.B.T, Gestalt Therapy and so on.

Tried psychoanalysis.

Tried counseling.

Tried help centers that specialize for autism and other specific mental health disorders she has.

Tried other mainstream medicines, maybe stronger pain killers.

Tried Alternative medicine and holisms like Chinese medicine, Yoga, Ayurveda medicine et cetera.

Tried body and breath work, energy work, magical methods.

Tried psychedelic assisted therapy.

Tried Marijuana or other psychedelics with healing properties.

Tried changing and experimenting on diet.

   And hundreds more! If she literally tried those hundreds of methods, and she was in daily suffering/pain, and it's chronic on a weekly/daily basis, and she tried all of them, then technically there's nothing anyone nor herself can do going forwards other than continue living. Least likely IMO, very likely she hasn't tried all of that I listed, only some and so much more left she could've explored. which pisses me off about these pessimistic psychiatrists because if she was just motivated enough the right way she would've discovered a helpful method, maybe for example Marijuana and psychedelic assisted therapy or something there, if only this psyche guy communicated the right way! Of course we gotta chill a bit because frankly some get away with far more horrific events than miscommunication, but IMO this miscommunication may have costed her life, which is just tragic...

   And last time I checked this sub forum's about society and politics! So WTF are we derailing into Neo Advaita spirit BS when we're dealing with  real serious practical issue we can argue about?! Like how do we move forwards with spiritual circles when the real issue is how this psychiatrist handled this patient, how we're not discussing or debating patient/therapy relationships, or bringing up the ethics board standards? Come on guys we got another sub forum for spirit stuff, we gotta keep on topic.

[Scholar]

One thing that needs to be understood is that, much like with pedophelia, if you suffer from suicide it is profoundly difficult to talk to anyone about it. It is truly taboo and this means that it is so much more difficult to help people with it.

 

People wish they could just throw the therapists at all the mentally ill people and viola, no more suicide. But there is a far deeper problem going on here that we are completely ignorant of because of this taboo, because nobody is really allowed to actually talk about it, not in an honest way.

Therapists won't solve this issue because it is systemic. You can try to hire more police officers, but if your society is corrupt to the core, you will not prevent criminality. You can try to catch as many child predators as you want, they will keep coming if the underlying problem here is not resolved.

Stigmatization of these issues makes it impossible for us to resolve them. This is essential to understand. Our discomfort, immaturity and inability to engage with these with an open mind is what is allowing for the child abuse, for the suicide, and for all the other ills, to continue.

 

Really, suicide in most cases is a failure of our collective responsibility. And people talking about it openly are a reminder, sometimes a very personal one, of that failure. But us making this a taboo won't suddenly make people any less hopeless.

Edited April 26 by Scholar

[Danioover9000]

@Bobby_2021

On 2024-04-23 at 4:12 AM, Bobby_2021 said:

I would actually allow her to die. But she should starve herself to death.

Hopefully a week of starvation will bring her back to her senses.

The problem is that these people have lives that are too easy, without even having emotions under control. She should had no real struggles growing up and was all over the place. 

She is in the freaking Netherlands. How bad could it be?

   What's even weirder is that not only is it in the neverlands but their ancestors were like Vikings, you know? The warring types of of cultures that traveled and did their seasonal raids and pillaging, and where a pretty strong willed minded and bodied peoples and generally ruthless rounded. Like it's so interesting how despite that type of stage red/blue society history we're having increasing cases of Nordic people suffering from combinations of mental health issues, mental disorders and sometimes physical deficiencies and defects nowadays. Makes you wonder...what really went wrong then and now???

[Danioover9000]

@Scholar

11 minutes ago, Scholar said:

One thing that needs to be understood is that, much like with pedophelia, if you suffer from suicide it is profoundly difficult to talk to anyone about it. It is truly taboo and this means that it is so much more difficult to help people with it.

 

People wish they could just throw the therapists at all the mentally ill people and viola, no more suicide. But there is a far deeper problem going on here that we are completely ignorant of because of this taboo, because nobody is really allowed to actually talk about it, not in an honest way.

Therapists won't solve this issue because it is systemic. You can try to hire more police officers, but if your society is corrupt to the core, you will not prevent criminality. You can try to catch as many child predators as you want, they will keep coming if the underlying problem here is not resolved.

Stigmatization of these issues makes it impossible for us to resolve them. This is essential to understand. Our discomfort, immaturity and inability to engage with these with an open mind is what is allowing for the child abuse, for the suicide, and for all the other ills, to continue.

 

Really, suicide in most cases is a failure of our collective responsibility. And people talking about it openly are a reminder, sometimes a very personal one, of that failure. But us making this a taboo won't suddenly make people any less hopeless.

   Bro, stop right there. We're not talking about pedophilia for the past 7 pages. This woman was apparently suffering from some chronic depression, has BPD, and the psychiatrist miscommunicated which IMO warrants ethic board review and maybe legal lawsuit by her family or so. We're so not talking about her also having pedophilia or the psychiatrist having pedophilia, come on man!! It's tough trying to bring this back from Neo Advaita maze, now you want to derail into prepubescent attraction issues and maybe LGBTQ stuff? I completely denounce this derailing, it's just so bad! Bring it back to the OP's main topic please, come on.

[Danioover9000]

@zurew @Bobby_2021  I'm curious but do you both have some past history here??? Both your posts have some chemistry going on.

On 2024-04-24 at 0:40 PM, zurew said:

So is your position, then that you are completely agnostic (you give 50-50) about whether committing suicide will eliviate ones suffering or not?

 

On 2024-04-24 at 1:37 PM, Bobby_2021 said:

I don't give 50-50. Maybe it could be 80-20. I don't know.

Which is why I say that AS is not the solution. 

You are free to prove me otherwise.

-------

I don't intend to convince anyone out of this since it's out of my power.

If you are loser and you die, you are dieing a loser. When you are living, you still have lots of time to win. Dieing is giving up on that power especially at a young age. 

I don't give a fuck if you are 60+ and wants AS. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Husseinisdoingfine

On 2024-04-25 at 1:06 AM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Preety was banned? Damn. I've been on this forum since high school and she was always one of the most consistent posters. I wondered where she went.

   Apparently Preety was banned, but there are rumors that she has another account made here and is living a new identity...

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

"They have tried everything". Sounds like bullshit.

 

   I could be wrong but after rereading this whole thread, if the OP was trolling this is by far top 10 in this forum easy. The op has successfully baited several users here, has somehow made them derail this thread into non-duality Neo Advaita stuff when really it's a practical issue between patient/therapist relations, psychiatrist miscommunicating at that end, and a complicated case of patient having BPD, depression and suicidation. Instead we have witnessed multiple derailings and side quests but little plot progression about this main topic itself.

[Buck Edwards]

38 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Carl-Richard

   I could be wrong but after rereading this whole thread, if the OP was trolling this is by far top 10 in this forum easy. The op has successfully baited several users here, has somehow made them derail this thread into non-duality Neo Advaita stuff when really it's a practical issue between patient/therapist relations, psychiatrist miscommunicating at that end, and a complicated case of patient having BPD, depression and suicidation. Instead we have witnessed multiple derailings and side quests but little plot progression about this main topic itself.

It really comes down to what the psychiatrist said. And I don't think they were professional. 

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

What I'm against is boxing someone as mentally ill and being restrictive

People are not mentally ill. People can have mental illness(es). 

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

You're doing the same in reverse order. 

(all I'm trying to say is that it can have both positive and negative effects and I'm not advocating for either. I rest my case)..

We have no empirical data to back up either side, so we can't really make any strong case for what the real effect of block or no block . I do think though, that giving medical advice is very irresponsible, so even if we go with the no block option - there I would agree with cheering that person up and making them feel better (by being kind and being empathetic), and telling them to go get professional help but not with giving them medical advice.

If you want to categorize the saying of "go get professional help" as medical advice, fine. My position on that is that unless you can show that your advice is more reliable than what profesionnals can offer right now - you shouldn't give medical advice and let professionals to do their jobs. We do have empirics on what success rate profesionnals have in general - which you can say that it is bad , but the idea that any normie layman can reasionably do a better job is based on nothing so far other than baseless assumption(s).

So the real contrast  here is not gambling vs gambling - the real contrast is professional help based on empirical evidence  vs gambling.

[Buck Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

People are not mentally ill. People can have mental illness(es). 

What does that even mean? 

[josemar]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Husseinisdoingfine

   Apparently Preety was banned, but there are rumors that she has another account made here and is living a new identity...

It was clear to me when Buck Edwards started posting a few days/weeks after preety was gone that it's the same style of posting. Seems he/she fooled everyone else 😁. Of course, now she's a man with similar psych problems as her. The length someone with BPD and histrionics behavior would go to....

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Husseinisdoingfine

   Apparently Preety was banned, but there are rumors that she has another account made here and is living a new identity...

No. Stop with the rumors.

Edited April 27 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, josemar said:

It was clear to me when Buck Edwards started posting a few days/weeks after preety was gone that it's the same style of posting. Seems he/she fooled everyone else 😁. Of course, now she's a man with similar psych problems as her. The length someone with BPD and histrionics behavior would go to....

Lmao. I don't even know who that Preety is. I'm talking about mental illness here. The delusion on this forum. Last time Princess Arabia was that person. 

[Basman]

12 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Bobby_2021

   What's even weirder is that not only is it in the neverlands but their ancestors were like Vikings, you know? The warring types of of cultures that traveled and did their seasonal raids and pillaging, and where a pretty strong willed minded and bodied peoples and generally ruthless rounded. Like it's so interesting how despite that type of stage red/blue society history we're having increasing cases of Nordic people suffering from combinations of mental health issues, mental disorders and sometimes physical deficiencies and defects nowadays. Makes you wonder...what really went wrong then and now???

I think you are mistaking Dutch with Danes lol. The Dutch where never vikings.

I think we have a perception problem relative to comparing mental issues in the past with the present because we are much better at reporting and recording things like a being mentally ill. Mental health issues are increasing but does that mean that more people are actually having problems or is the problem merely better reported?