28 year old girl scheduled to die via AS due to depression

[Buck Edwards]

On 25/04/2024 at 1:55 AM, Nivsch said:

Not because of that, but because the very term itself is fundamentally flawed, and blinds us from relating to the problem in the right manner and from understanding what is really going on and connecting the dots in a deeper level.

You make some valid points. 

 

[Yimpa]

19 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Poor thing. She must miss ya. She must have needed your help very badly. You should have coached her privately. Bpd sufferers often react badly to their environments and supportive environments make a huge difference. Sad that you let her go. Suicide rates are high in bpd. Who knows some help from you would have made a difference, hindsight. 

The guidelines specifically mention that this forum is NOT designed to deal with serious psychiatric issues.

[Buck Edwards]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

The guidelines specifically mention that this forum is NOT designed to deal with serious psychiatric issues.

Are you sure? It doesn't matter either way. Besides who can decide what's exactly serious and what's not. Even bipolar is a serious medical and mental illness. But there are plenty of bipolar peeps on this forum. Am I right? If people want help, let them get help, no harm done. 

[Yimpa]

8 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Besides who can decide what's exactly serious and what's not. Even bipolar is a serious medical and mental illness.

Learning about your mental health condition(s) is important. Proper education on it will help you determine a baseline of how severe your conditions are. 

Severity of your condition is key. You can have a serious condition, but its severity is mild. Or it could be severe, which in that case, this forum is inappropriate for you to be in without first getting your condition under control.

This same principle applies to maintaining a job. Many people who work have mental illnesses, but it’s not severe to the point where they cannot perform their jobs.

Edited April 26 by Yimpa

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, Yimpa said:

Learning about your mental health condition(s) is important. Proper education on it will help you determine a baseline of how severe your conditions are. 

Severity of your condition is also key. You can have a serious condition, but its severity is low. Or it could be high, which in that case, this forum is probably inappropriate for you to be in without first getting your condition under control.

You don't get to decide what's appropriate. That was my point. 

[Yimpa]

18 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

You don't get to decide what's appropriate. That was my point. 

I’ve been in relationships with someone with severe BPD. I begged her to get hospitalized when it got that bad and she refused. It was mentally taxing to try to help her that I had no other choice but to stop talking to her and take care of my own mental health needs.

She finally got hospitalized a few months after that and she’s in a much better place in her life now. We don’t speak as much, but the quality of our communication is significantly better, even though she still struggles with BPD.

[Buck Edwards]

@Yimpa I don't hear stories sorry. My point wasn't addressed sufficiently. Come to the point please. We were debating on.... 

[Nivsch]

23 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve been in relationships with someone with severe BPD. I begged her to get hospitalized when it got that bad and she refused. It was mentally taxing to try to help her that I had no other choice but to stop talking to her and take care of my own mental health needs.

She finally got hospitalized a few months after that and she’s in a much better place in her life now. We don’t speak as much, but the quality of our communication is significantly better, even though she still struggles with BPD.

Great but most bpd are people who can and also need to get help from an advanced conscious community when regulated in special sub forums and done responsibly.

Edited April 26 by Nivsch

[OBEler]

This forum is not designed for BPD.

Pretty India had more posts than Leo gura. Back then drama was on almost every thread she touched.

 Three are better places for her.

 

 

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

The guidelines specifically mention that this forum is NOT designed to deal with serious psychiatric issues

Ok so throw them to the ocean to be dependent only on psychiatry without broadening their perspective. Very responsible.

Edited April 26 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

Poor thing. She must miss ya. She must have needed your help very badly. You should have coached her privately. Bpd sufferers often react badly to their environments and supportive environments make a huge difference. Sad that you let her go. Suicide rates are high in bpd. Who knows some help from you would have made a difference, hindsight. 

You can't talk someone out of BPD and I am not anyone's therapist.

Don't get the wrong idea about what I do. I am a philosopher. I do not deal with mental illness.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

17 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Ok so throw them to the ocean to be dependent only on psychistry without broadening their perspective. Very responsible.

I would be extremely careful with letting "conscious" people telling her what to do.  Being enlightened will have almost nothing to do with knowing how to help someone who is dealing with a mental illness (especially as severe as BPD). The likelihood that a know-it-all user here will be able to help her is much less likely than that same person telling her something that will affect her negatively.

There is also a case to be made - that if you allow her to stay you will contribute to her stress, because she will get triggered repeatedly by other forum members.

Edited April 26 by zurew

[Yimpa]

24 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Ok so throw them to the ocean to be dependent only on psychistry without broadening their perspective. Very responsible.

Let’s say someone fell off a ladder and got seriously injured. They required surgery and now physical therapy. The irresponsible thing to do is to force that person to start running when they can’t even get out of bed yet.

[Leo Gura]

The better analogy is: if you fell of a ladder and broke your leg, you wouldn't go to Socrates or Plato to fix you. You'd go to a physician.

[Yimpa]

Here is an important reminder:

 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Let’s say someone fell off a ladder and got seriously injured. They required surgery and now physical therapy. The irresponsible thing to do is to force that person to start running when they can’t even get out of bed yet.

 

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The better analogy is: if you fell of a ladder and broke your leg, you wouldn't go to Socrates or Plato to fix you. You'd go to a physician.

When in emergency or acute phase yes.

In the long term you have to be as holistic as you can.

When I reacted to you above I didn't talk about emergency but on chronic phase managment.

Edited April 26 by Nivsch

[eos_nyxia]

4 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

Poor thing. She must miss ya. She must have needed your help very badly. You should have coached her privately. Bpd sufferers often react badly to their environments and supportive environments make a huge difference. Sad that you let her go. Suicide rates are high in bpd. Who knows some help from you would have made a difference, hindsight. 

This is a terrible idea...

Even if you're not held legally responsible for someone killing themselves (are you? can you be?), people in a community will hold you morally responsible if that person ends up doing it, whether you could feasibly have done anything to prevent it or not. It follows people who are considered to be in "role model"/ leader type positions around like a black stain, at least until the original people leave or memories fade.

This happened at least once on this forum already while Preety was still here.

Personally, I would only ever be directly responsible for someone in this way if 1) we had a long-standing, otherwise stable relationship (friends, partner) 2) they're my relatives, or if we lived in a world without any other social resources or infrastructure. Unfortunately, I have a finite amount of time and energy to direct toward certain causes, even if I did happen to be competent with dealing with distressed people.

Feasibly, someone could be helped/ supported if they had more of an outside support system and if they could manage mutually beneficial boundaries (or at least, manage their own boundaries). People who come to spiritual communities are often severely lacking in both. I'm not blaming them; it is what it is.

Edited April 26 by eos_nyxia

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

I would be extremely careful with letting "conscious" people telling her what to do.  Being enlightened will have almost nothing to do with knowing how to help someone who is dealing with a mental illness (especially as severe as BPD). The likelihood that a know-it-all user here will be able to help her is much less likely than that same person telling her something that will affect her negatively.

There is also a case to be made - that if you allow her to stay you will contribute to her stress, because she will get triggered repeatedly by other forum members.

Ok this anyway isn't supposed to replace therapy, but to just throw him or her away is not smart too.

Spirituality and mental health heading the same direction fundamentally, and the seperation between the ones who "don't have" mental conditions to the ones who have them is a mistake, and also wrong.

Edited April 26 by Nivsch

[eos_nyxia]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

This forum is not designed for BPD.

Pretty India had more posts than Leo gura. Back then drama was on almost every thread she touched.

 Three are better places for her.

Not just drama on the public forum, but in private messages and getting directly between people who otherwise would not have so many issues with each other, or would at least be able to sort things out in a more straightforward way. Source: I was there. A lot of the people she dealt with in PM were dealing with issues themselves, including myself, as I had a lot that I needed to sort out at the time.  I don't think... ultimately she was good for any of us.

I mean this respectfully... I think her heart was in the right place.

She's on another forum now anyway.

[BlueOak]

Being around more aware people can help you raise your awareness. Unless efforts are made to address the problems you see, you'll just be more aware of them. 

The byproduct of seeing these things come up in yourself and others gives the option of changing a pattern or suffering with it (to one day change)

So yes, these communities are generally places of healing indirectly, for those unaware of themselves. I understand that no place can be for all people, and you've always got to keep a line somewhere on behavior at some point. I don't know the specifics of what happened, I used to talk to that poster but I saw what you described. In my mind, though, from how they responded when I reached out, they needed more love in their life (we all do).