My thoughts on Hyper-Mind

[Bobby_2021]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

Could you practically use this hyper mind to solve any problems in this world? 

My brother is autis with an IQ probably over 180. And he said to me his thinking is not normal he thinks he is insane. He has parallel non linear thinking, he said he doesn't actively think it's more of an intuition. He doesn't make plans. It's a force that drives him and he is compulsive. He also saw everything as himself until 16 then he got an ego self and depression kicked in. His technical skills were on genius level, he was into electronic, he was building drones where no one knew that these even exist. He got into microprocessor programming in the end and could make a career. Unfortunately he had many problems, lands on the streets, got an heroin addict and almost died.

 

Of course it would happen.

Society is not made for people with such high IQs. He needs special care and attention. Only then can his genius thrive.

Sometimes it's a curse to see more things that what you are supposed to.

[BlueOak]

A hypermind is multiple metaphors happening at once?

*This is what happens all day but it seems a more perceived, clear representation of it.

Edited April 26 by BlueOak

[puporing]

10 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Could you practically use this hyper mind to solve any problems in this world? 

My brother is autis with an IQ probably over 180. And he said to me his thinking is not normal he thinks he is insane. He has parallel non linear thinking, he said he doesn't actively think it's more of an intuition. He doesn't make plans. It's a force that drives him and he is compulsive. He also saw everything as himself until 16 then he got an ego self and depression kicked in. His technical skills were on genius level, he was into electronic, back then he was building drones where no one knew that these even exist. He got into microprocessor programming in the end and could make a career. Unfortunately he had many problems, lands on the streets, got an heroin addict and almost died.

 

You can be the "smartest person" and be a criminal or the smartest person and be a Saint, or somewhere else, "hyperintelligence/mind" alone will not be enough to determine things.

Many criminals seem to have "hyperintelligence" that most law enforcement have a hard time cracking.

Edited April 26 by puporing

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Could you practically use this hyper mind to solve any problems in this world?

Hard to say. Probably. The biggest issue at the hypermind level is that human issues are of no importance. It's like using a cannon to shoot a mosquito.

Quote

My brother is autis with an IQ probably over 180. And he said to me his thinking is not normal he thinks he is insane. He has parallel non linear thinking, he said he doesn't actively think it's more of an intuiton. He doesn't make plans. It's a force that drives him and he is compulsive. He also saw everything as himself until 16 then he got an ego self and depression kicked in, still he doesn't see himself as a human being.

He definitely occupies a different kind of mental domain than us normies. I wouldn't go so far as to call that hypermind, but it leans in that direction.

This can come with serious trade-offs. Higher domains of consciousness can be counter-productive to survival. There's a good reason why normie human consciousness is so mundane, because natural selection killed off all the non-functional, quirky states of consciousness.

You should also keep in mind that there's not just higher domains of consciousness, there's sideways domains. They aren't necessarily high, but they are just weird and different.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

34 minutes ago, puporing said:

You can be the "smartest person" and be a criminal or the smartest person and be a Saint, or somewhere else, "hyperintelligence/mind" alone will not be enough to determine things.

Many criminals seem to have "hyperintelligence" that most law enforcement have a hard time cracking.

From the perspective of a 170 IQ person, society feels like a cage that meant to stifle the genius out of them.

This is why they are prone to drug abuse or lash out at society as serial killers.

Sort of like how hamas lashes out at Israel.

41 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Could you practically use this hyper mind to solve any problems in this world? 

I suppose this is plausible, but the interface for them to interact with human problems has to be set up.

There are many barriers which prevent them from empathising   with human problems.

But of course it's possible. They need lots of additional help in facilitating that. 

Edited April 26 by Bobby_2021

[puporing]

6 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

From the perspective of a 170 IQ person, society feels like a cage that meant to stifle the genius out of them.

This is why they are prone to drug abuse or lash out at society as serial killers.

Sort of like how hamas lashes out at Israel.

I understand that point. However that's still a conscious choice someone makes, esp if they're at that kind of "IQ" level. Somehow, ethics and being good just didn't matter nearly as much as gaining at the great expense of others ("criminality").

And most of these kind of criminals I was trying to refer to are not the "poor or desperate" kind.

Edited April 26 by puporing

[Bobby_2021]

7 minutes ago, puporing said:

However that's still a conscious choice someone makes, esp if they're at that kind of "IQ" level.

You can only repress your authentic self for so long. 

It will eventually burst out unless you can consciously express it. But society is not made for the expression of such individuals.

So they will eventually lash out. It's not a choice. You can only repress it for so long.

[puporing]

6 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

It will eventually burst out unless you can consciously express it. But society is not made for the expression of such individuals.

idk which area you're talking about which could very well be true..

I guess I'm referring to places where freedom of expression in other creative and non destructive ways are abundant but people still choosing criminality.

When I say "criminality" I mean people who seem to enjoy the sufferings of others and getting a high out of it, with no remorse empathy whatsoever.

Edited April 26 by puporing

[Bobby_2021]

3 minutes ago, puporing said:

When I say "criminality" I mean people who seem to enjoy the sufferings of others and getting a high out of it.

In that case it's true. There are many psychopathic criminals, often smart and charming who would engage in depraved criminal acts. 

Great dp btw @puporing 

[puporing]

6 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

There are many psychopathic criminals, often smart and charming who would engage in depraved criminal acts. 

Yes, they are very "clever" in fact, hiding behind masks and being good actors that fool 99% of the population. And some will fool most judges etc. 

Thank you very much. 

Edited April 26 by puporing

[BlueOak]

I love these topics as they expand awareness about what alien intelligence would be; growing people's awareness from a simple humanoid alien concept that looks like us with blue, green, or grey skin; through to intelligence so 'alien' to ours that we can't perceive it effectively anyway, only in shards or metaphorical echoes. 

I see metaphors everywhere if I choose to look at them. My cluttered desk is a metaphor for distractions; my leftover musical equipment, a metaphor for failed creative pursuits; my plain walls are a metaphor for boredom; the 15 tabs on my browser are a metaphor for split attention; and the noise of birds through a shuttered window is a metaphor for things I love to hear but shut out.

All of this is happening at the same moment in my reality as I type this. Is that what the hypermind is like? where you perceive 20 different strands of interconnected communication you are arranging for your reality at the same time?

Edited April 26 by BlueOak

[Davino]

18 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I think when we all collectively stop playing human games 

I arrived at the same conclusion. I set all birds free from the cage of my mind

Edited April 26 by Davino

[Davino]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You should also keep in mind that there's not just higher domains of consciousness, there's sideways domains. They aren't necessarily high, but they are just weird and different.

That's the conclusion I arrived studying U. G. Krishnamurti, very particular being that got it's own rare unique domain of consciousness. Just saying in case anyone would like to see how sideways domains look like.

[zurew]

@Leo Gura

Do you have a model of cognition? I am not asking just for hyper cognition but a general model that can rank (in some way) and can make sense of all types of cognitions.

Also what is your take on the idea of distributed cognition ? - it seems to me that the idea of distributed cognition has some parallels with the idea of a social memory complex that the law of one talks about.

Edited April 26 by zurew

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, zurew said:

@Leo Gura

Do you have a model of cognition?

No.

Not even sure what that means.

56 minutes ago, zurew said:

Also what is your take on the idea of distributed cognition ? - it seems to me that the idea of distributed cognition has some parallels with the idea of a social memory complex that the law of one talks about.

I don't know about that.

[zurew]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

Not even sure what that means.

I mean a system that can differentiate between different types of cognitions. 

For example here is Michael Levin's model:

Quote

The scale of their goal-directed activity is estimated (collapsed onto one axis of space and one of time, as in space-time diagrams).

Importantly, this way of visualizing the sophistication of agency is a schematic of goal space-it is not meant to represent the spatial extent of sensing or effector range, but rather the scale of events about which they care and the boundary of states that they can possibly represent or work to change. This defines a kind of cognitive light cone (a boundary to any agent's area of concern); the largest area represents the "now", with fading efficacy both backward (accessing past events with decreasing reliability) and forward (limited prediction accuracy for future events). The diamond or "spinning top" shapes of the cones depicted above are simplifications. Agents are compound entities, composed of (and comprising) other sub-or super-agents, each of which has its own cognitive boundary of various sizes. Image by Jeremy Guay of Peregrine Creative. Selves increase their cognitive boundary by connecting together

 

[Danioover9000]

@Davino

On 2024-04-20 at 6:46 PM, Davino said:

I have been fascinated and obsessed about Hyper-Mind since reading Leo's blog post.

A different mode of cognition, how does that look like?

So I decided to start from scratch, what I discovered is that the gap between being and understanding is cognition. Therefore: What is limiting my cognition to understand what is?

I could see that mostly my mind works in the auditive space using language, here I identified the first bottleneck .

Following this analysis, I started contemplating all sensory inputs as workable for an advanced Mind. Such a Mind would understand by visual thoughts, running engines inside itself, drawing, creating but also condensing in high abstractions symbolically. This Mind could use not only sound and light, but also taste, smell, touch and feeling to cognise. Like a soup of sensations it would map and cognise reality.

To understand, it would run its own simulations and play intelligently and on the fly with what is happening, like a virtuoso jazz musician. Having the capability to do, is not the same as doing, nor it means cognizing before the simulation or right experiment is performed.

To make this more concrete I started searching for examples. Maybe I'm losing my Mind with Leo here or is there something to this? While reading the post again and again, I was reminded of Nikola Tesla. For example, he never constructed a prototype in his entire life. He designed all his engines visually in his mind space, for weeks, months and even years, he ran simulations in his mind and saw the misbalances and errors of its design, therefore making adjustments if he knew how to do so. When his invention worked perfectly in his Mind, he then constructed the finished product, which always ended up working as he had envisioned. This was his work style for his whole life.

By this point, it becomes clear that linguistic thought is not the only way Mind can structure itself, great musicians are able to run symphonies in their minds, more vividly than even in real life. Mozart said he could hear entire compositions in his mind before writing them down. From a very young age, he had the capability to think exclusively in notes and sounds, in the same way you were able to think verbally. Beethoven, after being deaf, was able to keep composing by what he explained as "imagining the sounds and vibrations in my mind".

In the field of math, Euler was able to operate in numbers and think fully inside the mathematical world without any word contamination. Not only he solved and understood math consciously and linearly, but was able to snap solutions out of his mind directly from pure intuition, just by seeing an equation. Fascinating, isn't it? Srinivasa Ramanujan described cognizing mathematical equations as living entities with distinct personalities and properties. In the beginning, he independently self-educated himself about maths , he arrived to the same well-known mathematical conclusions travelling through different paths than those walked historically by other mathematicians. His novel contributions were therefore developed in his own intuitive system and mathematical instincts, which then were formally proved by his peers.

Another example came in my contemplation, Escher, with his unique way of cognizing in a self-contained system or cohesive self-referencing universe. His artistic tessellations of intricate shapes fitting together are a testimony of this concept. His art is filled with strange loops and paradoxes all fitting nicely one inside each other. The beauty, complexity and intellectual depth of his work are breathtaking.

Taking all these examples, let's run our own simulations to see how a Hyper-Mind would be:

Hyper-Mind is the evolution from Awake-Metaphysics to Cognition-Epistemology, from Eternal-Being emerges Understanding-Mind.

Hyper-Mind is able to run simulations using all of consciousness phenomena, it is comfortable in infinity, paradox, recursiveness, multidimensionality, counter-intuitiveness, systems, complexity and fractals. From 0 or infinity; it starts scratching distinctions to run its simulation and see what happens. It imagines things into existence and becomes directly conscious of its interactions and complex emerging behaviors.

Hyper-Mind is a universe-generator on its own, a self-designing Mind that reconfigures itself and self-adjusts accordingly to its own conscious sovereignty. It is Reality understanding Reality, a mechanism by which God explores God. There is absolute infinity to explore. Dreaming world-simulations into existence for it's own sake and understanding.

Hyper-Mind is Sentient Alive and Conscious

 

 

   Well IMO this hyper mind is just a hyped mind, yes pretty different but there's little practical value of a hyper mind. Realistically nobody here or in a group is going to have alien minds in our lifetime, maybe neural link but nothing that is mass psychedelic, which is fine and good because I don't want to get into a car accident just because I suddenly have alien mind.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, zurew said:

I mean a system that can differentiate between different types of cognitions. 

For example here is Michael Levin's model:

 

It's hard to say about stuff like that because you have nothing to go on but your direct experience in the end. The rest is guess-work.

[Danioover9000]

@zurew

8 hours ago, zurew said:

I mean a system that can differentiate between different types of cognitions. 

For example here is Michael Levin's model:

 

   Nice looking modal and good visuals. Main issue with this hyper alien mind is literally @Leo Gura and maybe very few people are literal pioneers, and when someone's a pioneer there's only so much knowledge base and conceptions to go off of. It's actually pretty dangerous work as there's just so little to base precautions or protections, you just are literally like an explorer on some alien planet, literally that dangerous and exciting.

   Another big issue with alien mind is we're still mostly extremely selfish to just collectively go hyper mind. 100% willing to bet if you got telekinesis, you'll use that selfishly. Horny teen with telepathy and telekinesis is just a recipe for chaos.

[zurew]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's hard to say about stuff like that because you have nothing to go on but your direct experience in the end. The rest is guess-work.

I think there can be done more than guesswork unless you  want to take the position  where you say  that cognitive science is purely just a guess-work and not grounded in anything tangible.  

I agree that we have a lot more to learn, but I disagree that cognitive science can't be grounded. Will that mean that we will have a perfect theory that will be able to make sense of alien minds in a perfect manner? Probably not, but it won't mean either that we will have 0 clue about them. The more we can study them , the better grip we can get on whats going on.

Edited April 26 by zurew