Are there different Levels of Enlightenment?

[James Swartz]

Here's Vedanta's vision:
If the problem of happiness is ignorance of my nature, and enlightenment is the hard and fast understanding that I am limitless, whole and complete, actionless, ever-free awareness, to say that there are stages of enlightenment is like saying that a woman can be a little bit pregnant. Everything is the light and the light falls equally on everything, so there is no standard for comparison.

Duality provides a basis for judgment, evaluation and comparison. When you are in duality you do not know who you are, so you are forced to evaluate yourself with reference to objects. You can compare yourself to an idea of what you want to be, to what you were yesterday, to other people or to absolutely anything. Seekers, worldly people dressed in spiritual clothing, evaluate themselves with reference to their idea of enlightenment as they perceive it to be embodied in themselves or in others.

An enlightened being is just the self functioning through a mind whose self ignorance has been removed. But the removal of self ignorance does not automatically remove the tendencies in the mind, although it eventually renders them non-binding, since they bind only because of self ignorance. Because all the mind’s tendencies are equal from the self ’s point of view, it has no preference concerning the type of tendency it illumines. Therefore, it expresses through the existing tendencies. If you view clear water though a colored glass, it appears to be colored. If you view the self through the mind, it appears to be a person with various tendencies. If the individual has been blessed with a very pure mind from birth, has had many epiphanies, is particularly single pointed in his or her pursuits or lives an austere and disciplined life, he or she will have radiance or charisma.

Radiance is awareness reflected on a pure mind. It so happens that many enlightened people do not have radiance, although many do. It is also a fact that many unenlightened people have radiance and many do not. Additionally, the quality of radiance is in time and is conditioned by two other qualities that render the mind less than radiant. Therefore, because an individual is radiant, brilliant, powerful or compassionate, does not mean that he or she is enlightened. So while it is natural to associate radiance with enlightenment and try to correlate relative degrees of enlightenment with relative degrees of radiance, it is not a sign of enlightenment. Enlightenment is just the hard and fast experience-based knowledge “I am awareness.” Knowledge does not show and is therefore impossible to evaluate directly.

For more, see here: How to attain Enlightenment, page 34

[abrakamowse]

I need to read that page 34 😋

[Princess Arabia]

If language wasn't a thing, there would be no enlightenment. The problem with happiness is the I AM. Separation. I AM something being something else. There is no separation so therefore in essence there is no I AM. The I AM is a dream so therefore it suffers within the dream experience not recognizing it's dreaming. Every experience of the I AM is a dream. It's true nature is not a dream because it's no-thing. The individual is dependent upon a subject-object experience which is illusory, and as a result everything experienced seems real because it is unaware that there is no individual. 

The bi-product of the I AM is separation and automatic suffering because separation and apparent suffering are synonymous. It is unaware that what it's seeking is the end of seeking; and fulfillment cannot be lasting where there is seeking of something it will never find because there was never an individual to begin with. 

There's only enlightenment within the dream of the I AM, which doesn't exist without relations to an object. Knowledge also implies separation. Someone that knows something. The Absolute cannot be known so everything known are just stories within the Absolute and also the Absolute. Enlightenment is the Absolute "enlightenment-ing" and since nothing is separate there's only the Absolute, everything is enlightenment or no-thing is enlightenment.

[Davino]

8 hours ago, James Swartz said:

If the problem of happiness is ignorance of my nature, and enlightenment is the hard and fast understanding that I am limitless, whole and complete, actionless, ever-free awareness,

A bit of a reductionistic approach. You may realize what is the case existentially and absolutely, but regarding relative happines, that's like the weather.

Awareness couldn't care less, but as humans we do care and briding this reality is crucial to live a fulfilling life.

8 hours ago, James Swartz said:

Duality provides a basis for judgment, evaluation and comparison. When you are in duality you do not know who you are, so you are forced to evaluate yourself with reference to objects. You can compare yourself to an idea of what you want to be, to what you were yesterday, to other people or to absolutely anything

There is a point where you have to bite the bullet and realize that both oneness and division are but codependently arising. No matter the mode, reality is and there is no corner of existence that isn't the divine itself.

There is a subtle wanting to be in a particular state that constitutes the last strokes of egoity. There are no techniques to keep in place what is always already the case, but the case is in eternal motion and the truth of the matter is that we are all biased towards making this experience go one way and not the other. Otherwise, we would be dead.

8 hours ago, James Swartz said:

Because all the mind’s tendencies are equal from the self ’s point of view, it has no preference concerning the type of tendency it illumines.

In a way it doesn't but in another it does. The Self is also infinite Intelligence and unborn wisdom. Literally the whole of Reality is your Self, all the intelligent manifestation of Reality is but a feature of your own Infinite Mind.

A natural alignment towards a higher living in harmony with all that is takes place spontaneously. Otherwise you become a Zen Devil a half baked croissant

8 hours ago, James Swartz said:

Radiance is awareness reflected on a pure mind.

Mmm, I like that. Good insight

8 hours ago, James Swartz said:

Therefore, because an individual is radiant, brilliant, powerful or compassionate, does not mean that he or she is enlightened. So while it is natural to associate radiance with enlightenment and try to correlate relative degrees of enlightenment with relative degrees of radiance, it is not a sign of enlightenment.

There are many facets of Awakening, we cannot cherry pick what are the most important ones. Some prefer awareness, others love, others truth, others God, others Infinity...

Each facet is a revelation into the One. Redering alive and embodying the full Diamond Awakeness is rare. Vedanta is just one facet inside The Infinite fractal of Reality. Diamonds, within diamonds, within diamonds to infinity.

8 hours ago, James Swartz said:

Saying there are stages of enlightenment is like saying that a woman can be a little bit pregnant

(...)

So while it is natural to associate radiance with enlightenment and try to correlate relative degrees of enlightenment with relative degrees of radiance, it is not a sign of enlightenment. Enlightenment is just the hard and fast experience-based knowledge “I am awareness.” Knowledge does not show and is therefore impossible to evaluate directly.

Enlightenment is just the beginning of the path. There is so much more to the game, to discover. Break free from all paradigms that are tying your consciousness down and fly free to discover what is really possible.

You may enjoy Leo's video about the Facets of Awakening. It gives a broader perspective of what is possible

If you liked the above, you may enjoy Leo's most adavanced published work, regarding God-Consciousness. In case you wanna have a tase of what we do here

 

Edited April 20 by Davino

[Princess Arabia]

6 hours ago, Davino said:

Radiance is awareness reflected on a pure mind

 

6 hours ago, Davino said:

Mmm, I like that. Good insight

May I ask, what's a pure mind.

[Davino]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

May I ask, what's a pure mind.

Innocence, straightforwardness, honesty, transparency, unbias (no hidden agenda)

The mind of a newborn is pure, nothing has been printed on it, it's still a virgin mind, a not knowing mind.

It's true that if one is in a high state of consciousness with a pure cristaline mind, there is a sense of brilliance and openeness to one's presence. Like witnessing a divine kid, Consciousness is radiating unfiltered through Mind. But consciousness can also be enhanced when traversing an Evolved Mind, in the same way a complex system of lens manipulates light.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

Innocence, straightforwardness, honesty, transparency, unbias (no hidden agenda)

The mind of a newborn is pure, nothing has been printed on it, it's still a virgin mind, a not knowing mind.

It's true that if one is in a high state of consciousness with a pure cristaline mind, there is a sense of brilliance and openeness to one's presence. Like witnessing a divine kid, Consciousness is radiating unfiltered through Mind. But consciousness can also be enhanced when traversing an Evolved Mind, in the same way a complex system of lens manipulates light.

Ok, and I'm not asking to be anything other than just curiosity of one's thinking, so take it as such.

If consciousness is everything, then how are the descriptions you mentioned above, how come the opposites aren't also consciousness. What makes what you said pure versus its opposite. (if you're not up for this let me know, i just see it as just a conversation, not as rebuttals or trying to challenge you.)

[Razard86]

I'll say there are levels and there are no levels. The one true enlightenment is to realize you are God and what God is and all the other petty human questions you have.

After that there are different states you can interface from. Leo states he discovered alien consciousness, I personally had fun with cartoon consciousness, there are many other types of consciousness too many to name.

So there are different levels of truth expression that can become more aware of what is going on (content) but as far God Realization each facet is on the same level describing the Absolute although the intensity can vary.

[James123]

48 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

May I ask, what's a pure mind.

 

[Breakingthewall]

there are no levels in the sense of understanding that I am existence. there are levels in the sense of the perception of what existence is.

 There are barriers that limit the depth of perception. I am not consciousness but the reality, which is self-conscious. The perception of what I am is limited by the structure that existence takes at this moment. My work is to make this structure as clean as possible so that the perception is as deep as possible, but it will always be less than total. What is total is the understanding that I am what exist. 

[Davino]

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Ok, and I'm not asking to be anything other than just curiosity of one's thinking, so take it as such.

Curiosity is divine, nurture it

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

If consciousness is everything, then how are the descriptions you mentioned above, how come the opposites aren't also consciousness. What makes what you said pure versus its opposite.

I don't know if I understood you properly. In case I am not answering to your question please kindly tell me so.

I don't think I said that impurity is not consciousness. The same as you can have a dim light or a shinny light, both are just light. For the sake of speaking, we draw a line somewhere in the middle and say pure or impure. Both are imaginary distinctions, consciousness dividing itself in an infinite spectrum. Consciousness and phenomena are one, we divide to understand and we unite to be. 

There is no dilemma, all wars are but a dance in the ocean currents of consciousness. Reality is a symphony always already at sublime equilibrium.

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

if you're not up for this let me know, i just see it as just a conversation, not as rebuttals or trying to challenge you.

I'm open to dance if you are open to dance

[Princess Arabia]

10 minutes ago, Davino said:

I don't think I said that impurity is not consciousness. The same as you can have a dim light or a shinny light, both are just light. For the sake of speaking, we draw a line somewhere in the middle and say pure or impure. Both are imaginary distinctions, consciousness dividing itself in an infinite spectrum. Consciousness and phenomena are one, we divide to understand and we unite to be. 

Ok, you explained your stance perfectly. You said both are imaginary distinctions, so that's clear enough that it's coming from the standpoint of the dream and not what is. Fair enough. 

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, Davino said:

I'm open to dance if you are open to dance

I like this. Made me chuckle.

[BipolarGrowth]

On 4/19/2024 at 8:13 PM, James Swartz said:

Here's Vedanta's vision:
If the problem of happiness is ignorance of my nature, and enlightenment is the hard and fast understanding that I am limitless, whole and complete, actionless, ever-free awareness, to say that there are stages of enlightenment is like saying that a woman can be a little bit pregnant. Everything is the light and the light falls equally on everything, so there is no standard for comparison.

Can you give a definition or multiple definitions for what you mean by the word awareness? 

[Davino]

On 20/4/2024 at 10:54 PM, Princess Arabia said:

You said both are imaginary distinctions, so that's clear enough that it's coming from the standpoint of the dream and not what is.

@Princess Arabia The distinction between dream and what is, can indeed be very powerful. But it can also cause a lack of meaning