How to spot a demon?

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 25/06/2024 at 4:39 PM, zurew said:

But, other than just feeling their presence/energy - have you had some exp seeing them or  touching them or them being able to interact with the physical world like moving a physical object in your room?

feeling the presence - yes

seeing - yes

Touching- No

able to interact in the "physical" no

I was this beings in Ayahuasca Visions. They are like some Interference that comes up from nowhere. No body could explain to me till know if they are some stuff that is in me and show up due to the medicine, or are in the field and come to the visions to distract from the work. First times I saw it I was ok with them since they had human faces and sometimes Cartoonish, but one day I sent and intention for the revelation of what this things were actually because I had an intuition that some wolfs like to disguise in sheep skin. One day they changed from smile faces to Devils and all the effect of the medicine was gone.. is like they sucked the energy just like vampires do. 

The thing is " wherever there is energy disponible there will be some sort of being taking advantage on this source" it can be parasites in your stomach sucking the energy from your food or this "astral beings" attaching to your like slugs eating your life source energy. 

Then you say " Oh but non-duality make this claim impossible" , True?? Even with non-duality we still have Boa Constrictors in a Jungle that will eat you alive with no mercy, so even if all is one inside this oneness there is a diversity of creatures, some of them you can see, other you need to gain the capacity to see and know how to deal with. 

Possesion is true. I saw it more than one time ready. If is not the experience of some people in this Forum, good, maybe is not for you to know it or deal with it, but dont assume it dont exist just because you could not see it yet. I used not to belive this shit too in the past. and now I dont belive, I know.

[Rafael Thundercat]

On 25/06/2024 at 6:30 PM, bambi said:

Your behaviours action intentions utterly matter

This is the key to get clean from this Forces. I a real ordeal to get rid of this things but is possible, mainly thougth change in diet, behaviors and basically living a rigthfull life. 

The key is to be aware of the Entry Points. 

Edited June 26 by Rafael Thundercat

[Rafael Thundercat]

And remember. The ideia of eliminate something is contrary to Reality. You never eliminate anything, you just elevate yourself above this low frequencies, same as gathering with different friends. You stop feeding them with what they like to eat, stop watching the media they like you to watch and engage in the sort of conversations they like you to engage " idle talk" 

Because overall, Devils love to have company, so they will turn you into one of them to have your company and suck your energy in exchange.

[integral]

2 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

I am not reducing anything. You can hold the truth that is all One Whole Unified System where there is not good and bad or evil and at same time recongnize that there are energies in play in this system, eletricity, put you finger on a socket and try make no distinction. Go eat some LSD and go visit a Satanic Cult and see if you will have no distinction. 

Energy = How something makes me feel

[Salvijus]

A real life story of a an ex-Satanist Grandmaster about the secret societies, dark forces, the spiritual warfare, possessions, the science of occult, witchcraft, healing, miracles and all things paranormal. 

 

Edited June 27 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

7 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

 

The key is to be aware of the Entry Points. 

He makes a good point about psychedelics, even mild ones being a doorway for spirits.

Edited June 27 by Salvijus

[Carl-Richard]

16 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Possesion is true. I saw it more than one time ready. If is not the experience of some people in this Forum, good, maybe is not for you to know it or deal with it, but dont assume it dont exist just because you could not see it yet. I used not to belive this shit too in the past. and now I dont belive, I know.

I used to believe normal people carry harmful negative energies that hurt you spiritually. It would even infect objects they touch.

And I could feel these things quite strongly. It's mostly gone now, but it took at least a year of conscious effort for it to change.

Now, that belief might have reflected some legitimate experience. For example, people can impact how you feel, and they might carry dirt or pathogens that could spread to an object. However, be wary if the belief is strongly persecutory or has some spiritual significance behind it, and especially if it's informed by psychedelics. Your mind can easily spin things out of proportions.

These are a few questions worth asking: is the belief hurting more than it's helping? Is it based on a lot of uncertainty, and is there an alternative explanation which is more certain and which can explain the same things?

Edited June 27 by Carl-Richard

[zurew]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is it based on a lot of uncertainty, and is there an alternative explanation which is more certain and which can explain the same things?

I would argue, that even if you don't have an alternative explanation, you still don't need to choose one poor explanation (by poor in this case I mean one that would be based on a lot of uncertainty and would be based on unjustified premises).

Like if an event happens and I can't explain that event and Im being presented with 3 possible explanations  (and those 3 don't completely exhaust the possibility space, meaning there might be other logically possible options that Im just not aware of)  I don't need to choose one.

Imagine the event that needs to be explained is this: There is a broken vase in your room and these are the options you are presented with: 1) a ghost did it, 2) mothman did it 3) Harry Potter did it. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I used to believe normal people carry harmful negative energies that infect you if you are around them and hurt you spiritually, even infect objects they touch and you if you touch those objects.

And I could feel these things quite strongly. It's mostly gone now, but it took at least a year for it to mostly go away with conscious effort.

Now, that belief might have reflected some true experience: for example, people can impact how you feel, and they might carry dirt or pathogens that could spread to an object. However, be wary if the belief is strongly persecutory or has some spiritual significance behind it, especially if it's informed by psychedelics. Your mind can easily spin things out of proportions.

These are a few questions worth asking: is the belief hurting more than it's helping? Is it based on a lot of uncertainty, and is there an alternative explanation which is more certain and which can explain the same things?

Yes, I understand your concern, and truly one cant let some experiences turn into a pesecutory paranoia and so fort. But also to use Oneness and all is Love and Ligth conepts to deflect some energetics involved in this phenomena is also another trick. 

For example, is known that we co-regulate our nervous systems or sometimes de-regulate when in the proximity of some people and also if we live for a long period with some people we share the same dishes, cups, bathroom and end up ingesting bacterias from them and vice and versa, so we are always interacting in some way with our Ennviroment, and affecting and being affected by it. To deny this saying is all a dream in God Mind is for me a sort of spiritual bypassing, using one aspect of reality to deny another. For example, if you swin in a polluted lake, no amount of "Is all God" will save you from getting infected. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

6 minutes ago, zurew said:

I would argue, that even if you don't have an alternative explanation, you still don't need to choose one poor explanation (by poor in this case I mean one that would be based on a lot of uncertainty and would be based on unjustified premises).

Like if an event happens and I can't explain that event and Im being presented with 3 possible explanations  (and those 3 don't completely exhaust the possibility space, meaning there might be other logically possible options that Im just not aware of)  I don't need to choose one.

Imagine the event that needs to be explained is this: There is a broken vase in your room and these are the options you are presented with: 1) a ghost did it, 2) mothman did it 3) Harry Potter did it. 

The ligth of one room turn on and turns of by itself. It happened to me in Brasil. No eletric shortage because the Fan was still working. The bathroom ligth just turned on by itself and turned off. I was alone in the Room

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

For example, if you swin in a polluted lake, no amount of "Is all God" will save you from getting infected. 

True. But still, "bacterias" is one type explanation, and "demonic entity" is another.

[Rafael Thundercat]

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

True. But still, "bacterias" is one type explanation, and "demonic entity" is another.

the Truth is that you dont need to belive or even see a bacteria to feel its effects on you and neither a demonic entity. And to be fair, most people never saw an actual bacteria in their whole life, and still they get infected and even die from it. Same with entities, you dont need to belive to be affected, is not like this things in possesion  movies that "if you dont belive it cease to exist or dont catch on you. Is even better that people dont belive so they can act in stealth mode. The most cure example I can give is a person under effect of some hard drug. The person can commit atrocious acts, semi-conscious of what they are doing or even unconcious, almost like the soul left and another soul took control like a puppee master. A empty vessel is an oportunity for any other "entity" to make room for itself, or even many at same time. Again, if you never saw someone possesed in front of you , you have no reference point to understand it. I used to think this thing was woo woo, till the day I saw possesion in front of me. I could not even talk with the guy. A normal adult speaking gibberish like and idiot, totally lost. and after the effect of the Ayahusca passed he was back in his self. 

Some people are more vunerable to this stuff than others, the reason I dont know, but I guess is the level of self ownership they have. Is important to be in the body, present and aware whenever you go on any group plant medicine work. But I think most guys in this forum dont do group medicine work and even to much psycadelic. 

[bambi]

To me the best way to think of it is your sense of self or conciousness is fragmentated into many sub-selves, and this sub selves are genereated from different ernergy fields or realms, some of these being veyr dark, demonic realms, depending on your behaviours and life. If youve taken drugs, aclohol and self destructive behaviours i..e mistreated yourself and others, these actions always cause fragmentation into lower realms

Enlightenment would be the re-integration and helaing of all these lower sub-selves 

The scary thing is with psychedelics specifically when capturing a lost sub-self or fragmented self, you literally go into this realm in a highly visual pictoral form, which can be frightening

The belief that our actions and behaviours have no consequences and then we die has been seen to be proposterous to me now. 

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

the Truth is that you dont need to belive or even see a bacteria to feel its effects on you and neither a demonic entity. And to be fair, most people never saw an actual bacteria in their whole life, and still they get infected and even die from it. Same with entities, you dont need to belive to be affected, is not like this things in possesion  movies that "if you dont belive it cease to exist or dont catch on you. Is even better that people dont belive so they can act in stealth mode.

But a bacteria is not generally thought of as a malevolent actor (an autonomous entity willing to hurt you). One of the strongest predictors of life-long PTSD is being harmed by a malevolent actor (specifically combat, physical assault, sexual assault, childhood abuse/neglect; Noris et al., 2013). Other things like natural disasters or life-threatening accidents don't tend to produce the same severity of PTSD. So the moment you're invoking the concept of a malevolent actor, especially when there is a lot of uncertainty involved (which adds a paranoia element), you're in risky territory if you care about your mental health.

 

7 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

The most cure example I can give is a person under effect of some hard drug. The person can commit atrocious acts, semi-conscious of what they are doing or even unconcious, almost like the soul left and another soul took control like a puppee master. A empty vessel is an oportunity for any other "entity" to make room for itself, or even many at same time. Again, if you never saw someone possesed in front of you , you have no reference point to understand it. I used to think this thing was woo woo, till the day I saw possesion in front of me. I could not even talk with the guy. A normal adult speaking gibberish like and idiot, totally lost. and after the effect of the Ayahusca passed he was back in his self. 

Then why not just say "he was high and out of his mind"? What does "demonic entity" explain which "high and out of his mind" does not explain? I can understand using demonic entity or possession as a metaphor, but to treat it as its own distinct phenomena is a different thing.

For example, I think demonic possession is a great metaphor for certain aspects of addiction: "you're possessed by a spirit that wants to control your mind, that is smarter than you and gives you clever justifications for obeying their commands, that makes you compromise on your morality, that knows your deepest weaknesses and insecurities and uses them to manipulate you, that knows your conscious and sub-conscious mind better than yourself,", etc. But then I'm acknowledging that I'm using it as a metaphor and that I'm indeed just talking about addiction.

So if you're treating demonic possession as its own distinct phenomena, what is a key distinguishing feature of demonic possession? If you're simply treating it as a metaphor, then that's fine, but again, that's a different thing.

Edited June 27 by Carl-Richard

[Rafael Thundercat]

53 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

So if you're treating demonic possession as its own distinct phenomena, what is a key distinguishing feature of demonic possession?

I can see what you dont desire to admit. That a demon would be a sort of "another" or Other with its own mind and plans to posses and cause harm to the host. Again, if you meet a Jaguar in the Jungle, the Jaguar will hunt you, and eat you alive. You can say later that the Jaguar was just a form of Other and an imagination from your mind, but in that moment it act as an other and that other just see you as food, if it had no bussiness with you it would follow its way like you have no substance to it.  

Anyway. It just make sense if you ever had an experience. I will not be here trying to proof something to people. End

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

I can see what you dont desire to admit. That a demon would be a sort of "another" or Other with its own mind and plans to posses and cause harm to the host.

I'm not closed to that possibility, but I don't know what a demonic possession looks like, so it's not something I will think about much.

 

4 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Again, if you meet a Jaguar in the Jungle, the Jaguar will hunt you, and eat you alive. You can say later that the Jaguar was just a form of Other and an imagination from your mind, but in that moment it act as an other and that other just see you as food, if it had no bussiness with you it would follow its way like you have no substance to it.  

Again, that's true. I'm probably the last person who will deny the reality of things outside of your personal mind; don't worry.

 

4 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Anyway. It just make sense if you ever had an experience. I will not be here trying to proof something to people. End

So it's just indescribable? Then I guess you would need to be even more careful if you're prone to paranoia, but hey, I won't be your psychological nanny.

Edited June 27 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

11 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

The ligth of one room turn on and turns of by itself. It happened to me in Brasil. No eletric shortage because the Fan was still working. The bathroom ligth just turned on by itself and turned off. I was alone in the Room

Now, I'm not fundamentally opposed to paranormal explanations, but I could see many "physical" explanations there. Lights are known to do that sometimes.

The light in my mom's basement sometimes turns off and on again at long intervals (maybe once every 10 minutes, lasting for maybe 30 seconds). There are no other signs of electric shortage, because it has happened while I was playing electric guitar. I was alone in the room. How do you explain that?

Edited June 27 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

23 hours ago, zurew said:

I would argue, that even if you don't have an alternative explanation, you still don't need to choose one poor explanation (by poor in this case I mean one that would be based on a lot of uncertainty and would be based on unjustified premises).

That's true. But if you do happen to find yourself in a situation where you have adopted a poor explanation, that would be a question to ask yourself.

Because that's the thing: I didn't feel like I consciously adopted the "negative energy" beliefs. I picked it up sub-consciously from hanging around people who believed it, even when I consciously told myself that it was irrational. That taught me a really valuable lesson: you don't choose your beliefs. And they often sneak through the back door, even beliefs you consciously know to be irrational or highly unlikely. Because "you never know", "it might be true", "better safe than sorry". That's how paranoia works.

Edited June 28 by Carl-Richard

[UnbornTao]

When you take away the presumed or imagined "demon", what's left in your experience? Sensation? Thought? Delve into the experience to discover that you may, in fact, be adding a bunch of stuff to the event that may not be actually occurring. 

I once perceived a curtain as a kind of monster when on sleep paralysis. Nothing agains curtains, or monsters. You may notice that, in the end, these are subjective, and usually self-imposed, states. Given that you're going to make it up, why not imagine angels or spirit animals? Sounds more fun.

[zurew]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

That's true. But if you do happen to find yourself in a situation where you have adopted a poor explanation, that would be a question to ask yourself.

Because that's the thing: I didn't feel like I consciously adopted the "negative energy" beliefs. I picked it up sub-consciously from hanging around people who believed it, even when I consciously told myself that it's irrational. That taught me a really valuable lesson: you don't choose your beliefs. And they often sneak through the back door, even beliefs you consciously know to be irrational or highly unlikely. Because "you never know", "it might be true", "better safe than sorry". That's how paranoia works.

Okay now I understand your point better given this added context. I was treating this whole thing as a philosophical "what would be the rational thing to do in this situation" question and not as a psychological "given, that I have belief x and given that I know that belief x is irrational, what should I do to drop or to change belief x?"

I don't know much about psychology and I don't know much about the underlying mechanics regarding how we unconsciously form our beliefs, but I agree that,  going "meta" and checking for other possible explanations and reflecting on some of the other questions that you listed earlier, might help with dropping or at the very least with lowering one's conviction in an irrational belief.