Animal Cruelty And Veganism. Watch This.

[Emerald]

21 hours ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

Killing is irrelevant; it's the intention behind it that can help or hinder the awakening process.

In the reality we are in animals eat other animals, and humans are animals. Our teeth and stomach have evolved to consume and digest meat; and if it weren't for our ability to eat meat, we wouldn't have been able to evolve to what we are today. Our brains are complex and need various proteins to function, and some of those proteins need to come from animal sources.

Intention: is a lion unethical for taking down a zebra? If a human kills an animal in a humane way, why wouldn't the same principle apply to them? To your celery example: if you purposely stomp on a celery plant just to be mean and kill it, your intention is "less pure" than the farmer who humanely slaughters his goat to feed his family. Intention.

A Buddhist wouldn't eat meat that came from a source where the animal was mistreated (unless them eating the meat did not cause any demand that was the cause of the slaughter and the meat would go to waste otherwise). Veganism and eating meat are both fine provided you are being mindful about the source. A vegan who is not mindful can cause suffering just as a meat eater who gets his food from an unethical slaughterhouse. What we eat is irrelevant from this perspective--it's all about intention.

I respect your opinion. But I still feel that this misses the point of my post. My point is that it's easy for people to bypass an emotional awareness of how you really feel about any given topic, if we use the rational mind to justify certain actions. It's kind of like cutting corners to awareness. People can justify just about any action if they can come up with a rational justification for said action. And they can use it to block out how they actually feel about a situation. For example, when engaged in war, a soldier must be able to justify killing if they want to be able to do the job properly. Yet, most soldiers are opposed to killing in the majority of situation. So, they need to simplify their awareness of the situation, and blot out deeper levels of emotional truth. So, they choose a mental framework that isn't true but is effective at helping them kill others. They separate the world into friend and enemy, and the enemy is someone you kill. So, understand that my post are not about Veganism particularly, but about how the human psyche tends toward rationalizing away uncomfortable truths. 

[Be Yourself]

On 4/17/2017 at 1:12 AM, Evilwave Heddy said:

Why do vegans not eat eggs?

I was having this discussion a while ago with a bunch of people..one of them were vegan and the outcome was "Because it's an animal product". Everyone just took that as an answer (same with me at the time) but It was the only part of the discussion that stuck with me, just because it was left unanswered.

So, why do vegans not eat eggs?

Another thing, do vegans eat chocolate with milk in them?

The reason why vegans don't eat eggs is because of the cruelty in the egg industry like debeaking, grinding male chiks alive, etc.. I'll let you see it for yourself. In terms of chocolate. No, vegans don't eat milk chocolate. 

 

[Elephant]

2 minutes ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

Animal cruelty is not caused by people eating or not eating eggs (or anything else). There is a root cause for this suffering, and then there is a cause even deeper than the root--and this is where you will find the source of all suffering.

Do you know what you are talking about?

[Elephant]

@My_Name_Is_Mud it was a question, and yes I think it's relevant if you know what you are talking about, which I doubt, therefore the question

[Elephant]

33 minutes ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

Animal cruelty is not caused by people eating or not eating eggs (or anything else). There is a root cause for this suffering, and then there is a cause even deeper than the root--and this is where you will find the source of all suffering.

ok, explain what you mean by this then

[Socrates]

@My_Name_Is_Mud Are you comparing yourself with a shark? Don't you have moral values? Also sharks kill in order to survive, you go to the grocary store and buy your meat meaning you kill for taste pleasure. You don't need it for survival. Do you see the difference here?

@TJM1959 Morality 101. There is no reason to kill sentient beings for your taste pleasure. If you try to find an argument to justify the innocent death of animals you will realise that the same argument can be used  to kill humans in certain conditions which instantly makes the arguement wrong.

Point out a diffrence present in animals that justifies killing them.

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

@Emerald There are no uncomfortable truths, there are only truths. How we want to feel about a particular truth is a choice we make.

Regarding this topic, the truth is that humans have evolved to be able to consume meat. Because this is a truth, no justification is needed to do it. Justification, however, is needed to not do it ("I don't want to be the cause of an animal being harmed so I won't eat meat").

No such justification exists elsewhere in the animal kingdom. A shark doesn't stop mid-bite before slicing a seal in half with its razor teeth with the feeling of guilt about causing that seal pain, and then swims off to chomp some seaweed instead. The shark is just doing what sharks do which is eating. It doesn't need to justify any "uncomfortable" truth away because the only truth is it is hungry and the seal is a perfectly delicious meal.

But you see, you're still talking about justifications and I am not. It was not my intention to get meat-eaters to justify why they eat meat or to say that they're not justified in doing so. Nor was it my intention to argue anyone out of their behaviors. My point was that justifications can be used to emotionally bypass a situation. If a person can watch animals be killed on a farm and/or participate in that industry itself, and feel okay with their actions, then that is where they'e at. But most people can't honestly do this. So, a justification such as "humans have evolved to be able to consume meat." can be used to ignore the less comfortable reality of what actually happens to animals. For example, my mother is a meat eater who never so much as considered Vegetarianism. The other day she was invited to a hog roast event, and there was a picture on the invite of a fully roasted pig with an apple in its mouth. She was really uncomfortable about it and thought it was disgusting to do such a thing and that it almost looked like a dog laying there. She said this to me, knowing that I'm Vegan, and probably expecting for me to be just as outraged as she is. I was not. I'm already aware of the uncomfortable realities, so the image was not shocking to me as it was to her. But she was truly disturbed. 

[Loreena]

Different cultures, different perspectives !!!

[Elephant]

everything you write is also a belief or meta-belief.

You still did not point out what the root of all suffering is.

Regardless, I think all your "advanced" theories just mess things up. Try to leave all your books aside for a second and just be a normal human being. @My_Name_Is_Mud

 

 

 

 

 

"NO THE REASON YOU SUFFER IS BECAUSE YOU SO FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING"

Edited April 19, 2017 by Elephant

[Socrates]

@My_Name_Is_Mud Dont mix spirituality in this dude, you make things complex.

56 minutes ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

How people feel about slaughtered animals is a function of conditioning

Accepting slaughtering animals as an everyday thing is a result of indoctrination of seeing them as food and not as sentient beings aka friends.

58 minutes ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

What is clear from this thread is that a lot of folks are still firmly grasping their belief systems, and their egos will defend those ideologies tooth and nail.

With that arguement i can murder your whole family and you wouldn't care, right? If not why grasp so firmly on that belief system then? Because morality is not a belief system it is common sense and result of a feeling caled empathy.

1 hour ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

If you want to stop animals suffering, you cannot do this by not eating meat or eggs.

If there is no customer for that product, there would be no slaughter houses. The only reason this happens is because people are willing to buy it. If you stop consuming they have less consumption and slowly but surely they reduce the production. You can think that if everyone on earth was vegan there would be no slaughterhouses because no one would buy meat so if we move towards that ideal we make a change. 

1 hour ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

You have to address the fundamental issues which cause people to cram animals in tight places and use drugs to get as much product out of those animals as possible

 The only reason they do that is because they can sell more meat and produce more product as you said yourself. If you try to go on the "make better conditions for the animals" argument, why don't you think that there is no reason to murder them in the first place. What are those fundamental issues anyway?

[Elephant]

@My_Name_Is_Mud how can you compare a human getting draged out of an airplane to animal slaughtery? 

 

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

you clearly see there is no correlation between eating meat and animal suffering

Yeah seems like you are not the sharpest pencil in the drawer. In order to eat meat, an animal has to die. 

1 hour ago, My_Name_Is_Mud said:

Sure, animals are suffering, but so are your fellow human beings, are any of you as concerned about that?

This is irrelevant to what we are talking about here. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Socrates

[Little Plant]

It's quite simple

If you don't like animals being hurt and killed, stop paying people to hurt and kill them 

If you want to self-actualize completely, you wont, by eating dead animals and especially their fluids and fetus. I mean why? Oh because it tastes good I see lol  

YOU GET PROTEINS FROM PLANTS!!!!!! IT IS WHERE THE PROTEINS ARE MADE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO EAT A DEAD COW NOW C'MON. the animal you are eating is not even a carnivore. 

And you are not a carnivore either, or else you would go kill that animal yourself. STOP PAYING other people to do your dirty work, that is NOT being aware and compassionate. at all. go do it yourself at least. if you can't you might be something to look at. 

If you want stronger and longer hair, new brighter eye color, never have to go to the doctor or be on any medication ever again,  and stop spending money on endless products you don't need, CONSIDER a mostly raw vegan diet.

And I can guarantee - you will be cancer free. 

Animal agriculture is corrupted by business, and will just keep going until all of you stop buying these bullshit and extremely unhealthy products. 

 It's business > people, animals. don't ever play yourself  

 

 

[Little Plant]

It's much easier not to be arguing towards veganism and against animal cruelty. It's much easier to go along with society. 

Everybody in this forum knows, that going against society and business is not easy at first, or at all. 

Everyone that is not a vegan, just ask yourself why not. really why not? I would really like some arguments about why people eat meat and dairy. 

When I did, my answer would be: Because it tastes good. Now I see that I was so culturally and socially programmed into eating what was advertised, and everyone around me as well.  I didn't know better.

Why haven't you meditated your whole life??? Well I didn't know better. 

Why haven't you quit you 9-5 and found your purpose yet? Well I didn't know you could do that, I didn't know better yo!!!!!!

Why haven't you gone vegan yet? Well.... meat and dairy tastes good.. and society and advertisement tells me that it's delicious. I don't care if it kills me slowly. 

Don't P L A Y Y O U R S E L V E S GOD DAMMIT. <3

[Scholar]

Seems like alot of mixing up of paradigms in here. 

 

Socrates seems to be discussing morality. My_Name_Is_Mud is taking it from a rational and analytical perspective, and Emerald is taking on the more of personal developement angle.

Blue, orange, green/yellow, by that order (spiral dynamics). That's what it seems like to me, atleast in this particular realm of discussion.

 

You guys seem to be talking past each other, and I don't think this will change with more conversing about this matter. The only one I spotted that made attempts of integration was Emerald.

 

Asking oneself these questions before writing the next post might help:

How do I feel right now? Am I writing this post with a desire to show that I am right, and to prove the others wrong?

How did I read the others posts, in what way did I interprete them? Was I maybe looking for flaws instead of truly grasping what the other wants to convey? Was I comparing every statement to my own satements about reality?

Am I trying to understand the other, and helping him to understand my perspective, or am I just fighting with him, arguing to make him see that I am right?

Most importantly: 

If I already am convinced that I am right, why am I participating in this discussion?

Edited April 25, 2017 by Scholar

[Truth Seekah]

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ganesh Sundaram

[Toby]

Did you guys know that Hitler was a vegetarian? Just imagine if he would have been even vegan! #joke