Animal Cruelty And Veganism. Watch This.

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Rider said:

@Emerald Cool, I didn't know you were vegan (I've watched some of your videos). Are you vegan of ethical reasons, health reasons or both? What effects on your body have you experienced? I find the subject very confusing because of the different opinions and perspectives on what's most healthy.

My biggest reason for not turning vegan is that I have read about many examples and personal stories of people who have eaten a pristine raw vegan and organic diet who experience a decline in their health and/or brain performance such as memory, which have returned when they re-introduced meat and animal fats. Many people get healthier on a vegan diet simply because their previous diet was so bad; low on vegetables and filled with S.A.D. foods which are processed and contain artificial, unhealthy additives.

My biggest motivation for turning vegan is ethical and environmental. The less suffering the better, and as for the environment, meat production causes a lot of CO2-release.

I haven't tried a personal full-blown vegan experiment yet. I'm currently eating and thriving on a ketogenic diet; lots of green veggies, lots of butter and just enough meat to get enough protein, and some carbs on workout days. I'm reluctant to compromise my health, selfish as that is. I'm eagerly awaiting the companies that are currently working on producing meat in the lab! It's happening:

 

I'm Vegan for ethical reasons. I wanted to have an agreement between my values and my behavior. I had considered doing it for health reasons in years prior, and always talked myself out of it on those grounds. I really don't know if Veganism is truly the optimal diet from a health perspective, as there are so many ideas about what human beings are supposed to eat. So I know that I'd always be second guessing my choice, and cheating on it left and right. So, there was never a compelling enough reason for me to refrain when I looked at it from the health perspective. 

But I have found that I've experienced a generally better feeling in my body since I went Vegan. I definitely feel lighter in my body. Though I can't say for certain that it's because of the Veganism as my sugar intake has lowered significantly since then as well. I was always all about chocolate... and I still am. However, most chocolate contains dairy or eggs in it. So, now I eat significantly less chocolate and sugary stuff in general. This was an unintended perk of my Veganism. I also eat a lot more fruits and vegetables to make up for the loss of certain foods that I no longer eat. 

On the downside, when I first went Vegan, there was a definite slump of energy in the evening hours. I still sometimes feel this way if I forget to take my vitamins for a few days in a row. But overall, throughout the day I felt lighter and more alert. 

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, Annetta said:

I had pork for breakfast, actually.
I'm poor though, vegan diet is expensive.

Actually, this is a common misconception. I spend about the same amount in groceries as I did before and I'm the only Vegan in my family unit. Only now instead of dairy products, I get dairy substitutes (soy/almond/cashew milk) which are conferable in price. Instead of meat, I get beans/more fruits and vegetables, and occasionally meat substitutes. Otherwise, grains stay the same. My family still eats meat, but if they didn't this would take away quite a bit from the grocery bill. So, there are fancy/trendy Vegan diets that can be quite expensive. But a basic Vegan diet can be done at the same price or potentially cheaper.

[Toby]

I eat mostly vegan, but I don't mind some exceptions here and there. Just had some meat today. Nothing wrong with that imo. Killing plants (also living beings) just to eat them is also ok.

I actually heard a guru making a statement that he enjoyed eating meat and by that he actually helped the animals being born in the first place.

[Socrates]

23 minutes ago, Toby said:

 

I eat mostly vegan, but I don't mind some exceptions here and there. Just had some meat today. Nothing wrong with that imo. Killing plants (also living beings) just to eat them is also ok.

 

Then you are not vegan.

23 minutes ago, Toby said:

actually heard a guru making a statement that he enjoyed eating meat and by that he actually helped the animals being born in the first place.

@Toby You do realize your father can kill his children with this retarded argument right? He helped them being born in the first place. This is not a valid argument.

If flesheaters oppose human murder, they need to point to a difference present in animals which if present in humans would justify murdering humans.

for example:

• animals are less inteligent, so if you are less inteligent than me, does it justify killing you? no
• animals are delicious, so if human flesh was delicious, does it justify to kill humans? no
• animals are inferior life form, so if aliens came to earth with superior technology, does it justify to slaughter us all? no

Now if you got it you realise that there is no counter argument against veganism. But dont forget it is easier to commit the "tu quoque" logical fallacy than actually engage with the criticism.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Socrates

[Socrates]

@My_Name_Is_Mud Cancer number two detected.

If i find 2 more this forum would become borderline carcinogenic

Edited April 18, 2017 by Socrates

[Toby]

Funny how vegan fundamentalists often fail to realize that plants, fruits vegetables are also living beings. Do you not feel bad for them being killed also?

[SLICKHAWK]

I am vegan.. This thread is funny.

Argue about life all we like.?

Vegan however is very easy. Not much use for energy such as oven or microwaves.

I take my plants to eat and place the butt in water. It will sprout new leaves and begin to root. Thats awsome.

With other plants fruits i can compost to the soil to continue.

Morning smoothie. For all you. Cheer up i love myself.

I love you. Continue the fight.

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Toby said:

Funny how vegan fundamentalists often fail to realize that plants, fruits vegetables are also living beings. Do you not feel bad for them being killed also?

I want you to be really honest. Do you really feel like killing plants is the same as killing animals? Or is this just easy to say as a technicality to justify a behavior that you have a hard time reconciling with your values? I'm not judging you for eating meat or anything like that. But I think that this is an argument based more in deflection than the actual honest emotional experience of the experience of killing and/or consuming a living creature. The former is an easy abstraction based in an objective truth that enables a person to skirt awareness of a painful reality. This ability to skirt awareness of the issue is compounded by the fact that most people get their meat pre-cut in little packages. The sense of being-ness is stripped from the presentation. The latter is much more difficult to be aware of on the emotional level and as a subjective truth. Could you slice up a live pig the way you slice up a stalk of celery? If the answer is yes, no judgment. (Most people who can probably grew up on a farm or as a hunter.) But I suspect that, for most, the answer is no. Becoming aware of emotions is the biggest part of expanding the awareness, and less so becoming knowledgeable of more abstract higher truths. 

[Toby]

Do I really have to justify for eating like 200g meat in a month? I don't think so. I don't go by logic or what I should or shouldn't do. If I happen to eat or buy meat, I will do it. I don't like killing animals though. I even feel bad if I have to kill a fly or something like that. And I even felt bad that I threw away some fruits and vegetables today because they were laying around for too long.

[Emerald]

Just now, Toby said:

Do I really have to justify for eating like 200g meat in a month? I don't think so. I don't go by logic or what I should or shouldn't do. If I happen to eat or buy meat, I will do it. I don't like killing animals though. I even feel bad if I have to kill a fly or something like that. And I even felt bad that I threw away some fruits and vegetables today because they were laying around for too long.

I think you misunderstood the point of my post. The intention of my post was to get you to consider that you might be using the objective Truth "both animals and plants are alive, and killing either is still killing" to unconsciously avoid the awareness of what your personal emotional experience is relative to the knowledge of what killing an animal entails. Also, it may keep you from facing ugly truths about reality in tangible ways too. Human beings are pros at emotional bypassing when it comes to things that go against their values or things that they feel uncomfortable about. I was not meaning for you to feel like you have to justify your behavior in any way or calling your character into question. But it is my suspicion that you may be deceiving yourself. 

[Toby]

Well... I agree that it would be better for the world and nature if there would be a lot less meat consumerism. And I don't even need meat. As I said, I mostly do not eat meat. I eat also a lot of meat-substitutes. But I don't get why eating meat is wrong. As I said, a guru I know (who is teaching since '95 and awoke with Gangaji/Papaji after spending a lot of time with Osho) used to eat a lot of meat some years back. And I also saw people eating meat on retreats. I don't get why this is "bad".
I myself couldn't kill animals to eat them (under normal circumstances) but I'm also not really the guy who could do any work in the medical field like cutting open bodies or corpses...

[Emerald]

23 minutes ago, Toby said:

Well... I agree that it would be better for the world and nature if there would be a lot less meat consumerism. And I don't even need meat. As I said, I mostly do not eat meat. I eat also a lot of meat-substitutes. But I don't get why eating meat is wrong. As I said, a guru I know (who is teaching since '95 and awoke with Gangaji/Papaji after spending a lot of time with Osho) used to eat a lot of meat some years back. And I also saw people eating meat on retreats. I don't get why this is "bad".
I myself couldn't kill animals to eat them (under normal circumstances) but I'm also not really the guy who could do any work in the medical field like cutting open bodies or corpses...

Ultimately, nothing is good or bad, so eating meat is not "bad" in an absolute sense. But I was specifically addressing your point about killing plants and killing animals being conferable. I was saying to be aware that this can be used to overlook emotionally uncomfortable aspects of reality, which could cause a dimming in your level of self-awareness. So, if you use this justification, it could potentially cover up the emotions that you really feel about the situation since you would be less likely to explore if further as you've already come to a satisfactory conclusion. So, understand that my post isn't really about discouraging meat eating (though I would like it if people didn't consume meat). My post is about being careful about coming to satisfactory conclusions regarding a particular matter while not diving deeper into the emotions that underlie it. It's about awareness.

[Socrates]

6 hours ago, Toby said:

 

Do I really have to justify for eating like 200g meat in a month?

 

Do i have to justify for killing just 1 person per month?

[Steph1988]

@Socrates I am a cook and i processed insane amounts of animal products in my ten years of work so in your eyes i must be accessary in mass murder should i feel guilty? 

[Socrates]

@Steph1988 That question is not productive in the first place.

Ask yourself what makes killing animals moral?

[SLICKHAWK]

I am a cook. I posted in this thread earlier however. 

I only feel bad cooking for me. If i can cook for others to make them happy.

I do have change in direction. Restaurant can compost food or recycle. Be sure to keep your values 100%  teach those around your actions. Lead by example.

Daily smoothie spread the love.

[Toby]

4 hours ago, Socrates said:

Do i have to justify for killing just 1 person per month?

You kill a lot of animals and plants each month. Bacteria, flys... all animals. I'm not saying it is the same as killing chickens or other animals but if you find it immoral to kill animals, why is it moral to kill plants? Is it also moral for a cat to kill a mouse? The beautiful and present cat just goes outside and kills a mouse. How immoral!

Wasn't it the Buddha who ate meat and got poisened by it or something? Why did he eat meat? isn't that immoral?

[TJM1959]

On 4/17/2017 at 5:00 AM, Socrates said:

It really bugs me why people dont get it, maybe it is just ignorance but if you put the effort to educate yourself and you are not a spoiled brat that can't give up his artery clogging and carcinogenic foods you are going to be the healthiest you ever been.

Could it be that people do get it? That we are educated? FYI, even your lil puter you sit behind is linked to a by-product of animal based production/manufacturing. Animal based fossil fuels made those lil letters you push down to make all your words come to life. Your lil assessments re ignorance and spoiled brats carries no weight, just assessment. Accusatory and trolling, go away.

[Socrates]

5 hours ago, blazed said:

Ultimately if you think about it, you are everything, so God is eating God, and so justice is done in and of itself, but if you know you're eating yourself... would you? Wouldn't you prefer to eating forms of you that do not suffer, that do not long to live out their lives?

This gets too complex by mixing spirituality in it. Folks in here can't even understand the basics of morality.

 

 @TJM1959 @TobyYou still fail to take responsibilty and you twist it back to me. tu quoque fallacy is not an argument. Answering criticism with criticism on the accuser is not an argument. Make an argument why it is moral to kill animals or shut the fuck up.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Socrates

[TJM1959]

7 hours ago, Socrates said:

Folks in here can't even understand the basics of morality.

You continue to make blanket statements within this forum suggesting you just want to be right. An idea, why don't you educate us on the subject of morality, ya know, the right and wrong stuff.
I'll "shut the fuck up" up now and wait to learn from you!