Animal Cruelty And Veganism. Watch This.

[Guest Annetta]

@Socrates Quote from you: "I used to have this high judgemental, what-are-these-people-doing kind of thinking but it is pointless. If you tell them face to face about whatever issue you see, it just flies above them or worse they get offended. So now I just accept whatever it is and just make it fun. One way to overcome the concsiousness gap and connect with these people is humor in my opinion."
 

[Socrates]

@Annetta Context! I assumed (my bad) that forum people>ordinary people but at the end of the day they are all the same egoic maniacs that get offended by different beliefs. Also what are you trying to do here? What is your purpose of this comment? Does it help discuss the main subject?

[Guest Annetta]

@Socrates I'm not one to stay on topic.
I'm not offended by your beliefs.  I don't give a shit if you're vegan.  Just noticing that you aren't a man of your word.

[Socrates]

@Annetta You simple ignore my response and you continue with this narrative. Are you reading the comments or are you just commenting for the sake of commenting?

[Evilwave Heddy]

@Socrates lol

[Socrates]

@Evilwave Heddy That is not creative man, find your own memes. Oh i forgot you may get offended just by searching the web, nevermind take mine.

[Guest Annetta]

@Socrates I didn't answer your last question.  It's obvious what the answer is to that and everything else that I have said to you fits right into what you were asking.

Context! I assumed (my bad) that forum people>ordinary people but at the end of the day they are all the same egoic maniacs that get offended by different beliefs.
I'm not offended by your beliefs.  I don't give a shit if you're vegan.

Also what are you trying to do here? What is your purpose of this comment?
Just noticing you aren't a man of your word.

Does it help discuss the main subject?
I just answered your question above.

[Socrates]

Just noticing you aren't a man of your word. This gets refuted by this:

Context! I assumed (my bad) that forum people>ordinary people but at the end of the day they are all the same egoic maniacs that get offended by different beliefs. 

Does it help discuss the main subject?

IT DOESNT

Are you delusional? Strawman arguments dont work on me. You are manipulating my words to sound smart but you dont.

Why don't you tell me your real motives and not this kind of crap? What are you trying to do here?

[Guest Annetta]

@Socrates I am a manipulative person.
Where's the humor?  

[Morten]

I want to thank Socrates for his posts in this topic.

I do not agree with his point of view and it has created a very strong negative emotions in me. That gave me the chance to inquire about those emotions and now I feel like understand better how they are triggered, which parts of my body get tensed when certain emotion is felt etc. I managed to do 4 step process  and turnaround thought by Byron Katie. Also it showed me that although I have made big progress in my personal development and ego work, there is soooooooooooooooooo much more to be done.

Once again, thank you

[Emerald]

I'm Vegan, myself, but as I read through the thread, I feel that your approach to heartening more people toward Veganism is counter-productive.

Number one, if you criticize or shame people for their behavior, it is a normal human reaction to clamp down tighter and identify in a stronger way with the behaviors being criticized.

Number two, there is no such thing as right or wrong in the absolute sense as reality is empty of meaning until the human mind places meaning upon it. So, no one can say objectively that eating meat/consuming dairy (or literally anything else) is wrong with no room for varying opinions. So, even thought killing animals objectively causes pain for the animal, people can still justify this behavior by creating some exception in their mind. We see human beings do this type of thing all the time during war and other such situations. So, saying that something is objectively ethically wrong is not true because ethics are inherently subjective. So, people really mold their own meanings and they can always remold them to fit their own comfort zones.

Number three, I would suspect that the majority of people already have Vegan values. If I had to put a percentage on it, I'd say at least 60% truly believe that animals should be treated compassionately. Most people couldn't be able to watch what goes on in the meat and dairy industry and feel nothing about it... let alone be able to participate in the killing itself. So, it's likely that the people who have Vegan values, yet still continue to consume meat and dairy, do so because they realized as a child that refraining would not stop the situation from happening. This is painful and was part of my Vegan transition process that was very difficult to endure. Because it was making me aware of things that I felt more comfortable being unaware of.  So, this is why you'll always see a lot of defensiveness if you try to convert people over to a Vegan diet. Because there is a deep and hidden guilt and an unconscious feeling of powerlessness. There's just an uncomfortable bump in awareness that comes along with the whole thing. So, you will not be able to get to people by using guilt or brashness as this will just compound the discomfort that's already there. When I was transitioning Vegan, I was talking to this guy on my channel who was gung-ho about Veganism. And even though he was the one that encouraged me to just let go of it (I was already Vegetarian), he had a shaming way about it that almost made me want to forget the whole thing. It added even more discomfort to my transition process, even though I know it was not his intention. 

So, these are just some things to keep in mind. I think Veganism is a great thing, and it makes sense to not consume products that cause pain and death if we can get our needs met in other ways. It also makes sense to have an agreement between inward values and outward actions. But you have to understand that being condescending will do the exact opposite of what you're intended goal is. It will just add another layer of repression. Vegans must realize that we are representatives of certain aspects of the collective shadow of humanity, so there will be a lot of resistance and just a general dislike coming our way. And this is just the way that things are right now, as this is the place that humanity is at. The best way to deal with resistance effectively is to loosen instead of stiffen. Try to punch a stiff board, and the board will break and your fist will bleed. Try to punch a tissue, and the tissue is still intact and present and the fist is unharmed. I'm confident that as humanity evolves, more and more people will go Vegan. Though I don't think the percentage of Vegans will ever exceed 40% of society, this pattern will eventually create the demand for the scientific community to step in and create genetically identical meat and dairy products that are cheaply produced in a lab without needing to raise and kill animals for it. Once this happens and the price is low enough, it's only a matter of time before the cruel practices become obsolete. But this is just my guess and hope as to how it will come to be in the future. 

[eskwire]

52 minutes ago, Morten said:

I want to thank Socrates for his posts in this topic.

I do not agree with his point of view and it has created a very strong negative emotions in me. That gave me the chance to inquire about those emotions and now I feel like understand better how they are triggered, which parts of my body get tensed when certain emotion is felt etc. I managed to do 4 step process  and turnaround thought by Byron Katie. Also it showed me that although I have made big progress in my personal development and ego work, there is soooooooooooooooooo much more to be done.

Once again, thank you

I would like to thank him for the laugh. This was too funny. 

Did you know Socrates yelled a lot and used sassy memes? You thought he asked many questions to open minds. Oh no, you are ignorant of the truth. The truth of Socrates. 

[eskwire]

@Socrates Ok so you are obviously a young person and are into your ideals, as well as knowing the names of logical fallacies so you can argue with people. There is nothing wrong with that. But please listen for a moment in an open way. 

Nobody on this forum would be offended by veganism itself. It's not like we haven't heard of it before or wouldn't allow others to live in that way. A large percentage of us have probably tried to stick with it or at least looked into it. 

You made the mistake of assuming this forum was full of people who were "better than ordinary people" and, with that criterion, would already be vegan or have zero objections/questions about it.

You are projecting your ego onto the forum. 

People in this forum won't jump on your ass for being vegan, or not being vegan.

People in this forum jump on your ass if you are being dogmatic.  

This is a place to change your mechanisms and habits of thought, not to begin thinking any one certain thing. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by eskwire

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, eskwire said:

Did you know Socrates yelled a lot and used sassy memes? You thought he asked many questions to open minds. Oh no, you are ignorant of the truth. The truth of Socrates

Dont offend me, i will change the subject and talk about the way you phrase your point. Are you all that manipulative or is it just today?

30 minutes ago, eskwire said:

with that criterion, would already be vegan or have zero objections/questions about it.

Nope, with that criterion, i would communicate it bluntly so we get over with this but no it went downhill from there.

34 minutes ago, eskwire said:

People in this forum jump on your ass if you are being dogmatic.

You know it has nothing to do with dogma, only with ego.

37 minutes ago, eskwire said:

This is a place to change your mechanisms and habits of thought, not to begin thinking any one certain thing. 

That's what i hoped and as i already said came here with a positive bias but seems like political correctness runs amok in here. The whole point of my arguments was to be honest and get the point across but seems like your egos are too fragile.

[Guest Annetta]

15 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Dont offend me, i will change the subject and talk about the way you phrase your point. Are you all that manipulative or is it just today?

55 minutes ago, eskwire said:

I'm manipulative most days.  Can't speak for anyone else though.

[Socrates]

To sum things up the whole post could be described by this.

[eskwire]

@Socrates It's not about you being blunt, or saying exactly what you mean re: veganism. It's about you having an ego spazz and telling everyone else they are having an ego spazz. I'm not offended by any of this. I'd like to implement a vegan diet. You are being immature and we are simply pointing this out to you.

If you want to be part of this forum, you have to accept that most of us aren't going to pet your ego or your pet ideologies. We may agree with you and if we think you are delivering the message badly, we will point that out so you can become more effective in the world. 

Why?

Because you are here for growth. Or are you here to talk about veganism?  

Edited April 17, 2017 by eskwire

[Socrates]

@blazed@eskwire  You see blazed is not insecure about himself and knows the truth. He is aware of his actions and takes responsibility for them. Be like blazed and eventually go vegan of course. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Socrates

[Guest Annetta]

I had pork for breakfast, actually.
I'm poor though, vegan diet is expensive.

[Socrates]

@Annetta You are the cancer of this forum someone needs to extract it.