Free Will Exists - Alex O'Connor is wrong about free will

[Razard86]

8 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

ego says go ahead you can choose god but it's the bible's god and the ego loves and encourages this

you will then be living according to the egoic religion of sin separation suffering sorrow sickness specialness and specifics ... all of which are false and keep you dreaming and keep you from going within to find the truth

ego is smart and religious people think they have figured it out, this is nonsense

All knowledge is complete fabrication, because it's relative truth.

The truth is everything is the ONE WILL of GOD, and only GOD has absolute control. But when God creates itself as form it has to surrender all of its control. So God is absolutely powerful, and the creation is absolutely powerless, because it has to share its power with other and other does not always care about its survival. Knowledge is desire for being, because being has absolute control. But Being will never give absolute control over to knowledge because the desire for knowledge is to have absolute control and to use it for selfish purposes.

Reality has one immutable law and that is it must be absolutely infinite love, as such finite love will never be given absolute knowledge. Absolute Knowledge is shared by all of the infinite creations so to gain absolute knowledge you have to become absolute being.

Edited April 19 by Razard86

[gettoefl]

19 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I wanted to post a thread like a week ago on the bolded statement, absolutely agree. I went against my impulse and did not post about it. 

To post or not to post, that is the question. I am the same me either way. I have the free will to choose whether to post or not post. I don't think the God of the bible lied about free will.

What if next time you have an important decision to make (not the trivial example I gave perhaps, but it could be that also), you realise you also have the option to sit down, meditate on it, try to focus and clear distractions and make a choice from that state? I'm sure if you perform even a 5 minute meditation before you make the decision (which is your choice, btw), the outcome might be way different. Even if you choose to do the same as you "would have" without taking the silent space.

As humans, we do not have Absolute free will, that I agree. We are being too radical always here on the forum, you either have 100% freedom of will or 0% freedom of will. What was that saying, "only a Sith deals in absolutes". Holds true.  

To me it is mainly about knowing you have a choice. Knowing what choices you have, and knowing what is out of your control. We need to be able to accept the things we have no control over, and we also need to acknowledge the things we do have control over. 

Start moving your hands spontaneously right now. What is stopping you? Tell me you are not free to spontaneously move your hands right now any way you like? Yes you can't move your hands like a superhero or transform them into something else, but within the Human framework, you have full control of your hands (unless they are damaged somehow) and you have the choice what spontaneous movements to make, no one ever can convince me that there is no free will in that, in dancing, in laughter, in love, in play .

You can choose to show a middle finger too, you can choose to clap, you can choose to slap. you can choose many things, you might even choose not to think about it and be completely spontaneous, or you can choose to think about it. There is choice available at every level.  If it never crossed your mind that you can clap for example, you don't have the freedom to choose that option, but after knowing the option exists, it is now part of one of your many choices.

Its simple and obvious stuff, why is it being overlooked? 

you cannot transcend your programming, you are a bunch of thoughts that tell you what to do and what not to do, i pointed out one exit strategy

of course nobody wants to think they are a mindless automaton and encourages others by saying you and i can do something good, it the way of the world

truth is painful and most want to keep their dreams going as happily and lengthily as possible

this world is a tiny mad idea at which the son of god forgot to laugh but next morning he wakes up and say i just dreamed some real crazy hooey last night

[Dodo]

17 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You don't have a choice every moment, if you did every human would choose God. All ability to choose is based on your awareness level and you didn't choose that. Notice how dishonest you have to be to maintain your perspective. 

You don't control the movement of your fingers as a human, that is controlled by processes in the body, and all those processes run on their own which produce the movement of the finger. As God you WILL the movement of your finger, but you lock your will to your human vessel. 

You see you all don't understand how control works. Everything in reality works autonomously without a controller. The only reason it feels like you move your finger is because you can predict the movement of where your finger moves. As such you feel in control. So control is predictive power. If you knew everything that was happening in every moment as it happens then you would have control, and that is what God Consciousness is.

When knowledge and being collapse as one all is known as it is being/expressing just like how you know where your finger is going to go.

But you created rules in this life. If I sever the nerves in your finger it will not move. Why? Because the autonomous functions that happen without your conscious will/knowledge of cannot happen now to move your finger. So what it proves is the HUMAN never had control.

Humans gain control by raising their awareness to God level and thus can INFLUENCE more of their daily actions towards a purpose that they desire. But notice this takes PRACTICE!!! You cannot just give yourself absolute control. When it gets cold you shiver, you don't control that, look I am tired of listing all the things you cannot control.

You don't have control, you have INFLUENCE. Influence means you can RESPOND to something to spark/create a change. But you also do not control the rate or the degree of change either. Also your ability to respond is based on intelligence, physical strength, reaction time, your awareness level, your level of knowledge, (knowledge is different than intelligence as knowledge is stored memory and intelligence is your ability to interpret a patterned expression and understand accurately what is happening), energy level (how much energy you currently have in your body from rest and eating), what emotional mood you are in (its harder to motivated yourself when you are feeling down), and this is trusting that everything in your body functions properly because your body could produce a neurological error which causes a twitch in movement which produces what we call a "mistake." 

^^^ Many of you on here have no idea how many forces are at play that produce the actions you take everyday. You don't have free will, you never had it. All you have is influence and that is why when certain factors are at play, such as lack of sleep and fatigue you cannot perform optimally no matter how much mental and physical exertion you put out. That is what we call constraints. To be free is to HAVE NO CONSTRAINTS. You as God bound/made yourself a slave to this human vessel, and this is what runs your life. Your duty is to become aware of how it functions and how everything else around you functions and align with it, instead of fighting against it.

You are again talking about absolute freedom. You can have that in a lucid dream, depending on how strong you become in lucid dreaming. 

In "Dreams of Awakening" book Charlie Morley (author) claims that you can have dreams where you can choose absolutely everything you can change scenery at will everything, closer to the absolute will you are talking about. That type of will is not relevant to waking life. How can you grow if you are not limited in some way? Forget about unlimited power, that is the dark side talking. 

[Dodo]

5 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

you cannot transcend your programming, you are a bunch of thoughts that tell you what to do and what not to do, i pointed out one exit strategy

of course nobody wants to think they are a mindless automaton and encourages others by saying you and i can do something good, it the way of the world

truth is painful and most want to keep their dreams going as happily and lengthily as possible

this world is a tiny mad idea at which the son of god forgot to laugh but next morning he wakes up and say i just dreamed some real crazy hooey last night

Might not be able to escape the programming, but I can tweak it, ex programmer here. 

Eckhart Tolle talks about something CRAZY. How about, a way you can actually stop thinking? You might have heard about that. Now if you didn't have the choice to stop thinking sure, you're at the whim of your thoughts! But what if you knew how to stop thinking and break the chain of the mind ?

Already starting to see some freedom there. 

Edited April 19 by Dodo

[gettoefl]

6 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

All knowledge is complete fabrication, because it's relative truth.

The truth is everything is the ONE WILL of GOD, and only GOD has absolute control. But when God creates itself as form it has to surrender all of its control. So God is absolutely powerful, and the creation is absolutely powerless, because it has to share its power with other and other does not always care about its survival. Knowledge is desire for being, because being has absolute control. But Being will never give absolute control over to knowledge because the desire for knowledge is to have absolute control and to use it for selfish purposes.

Reality has one immutable law and that is it must be absolutely infinite love, as such finite love will never be given absolute knowledge. Absolute Knowledge is shared by all of the infinite creations so to gain absolute knowledge you have to become absolute being.

god doesn't know anything about us, it doesn't know our minds our knowledge our words ... we are cavorting in the FALSE, god cannot contaminate itself in the false where we are, it knows we are indulging in a nightmare as we sleep, it is patiently waiting to say good morning and continue with timeless spaceless oneness

there is no love in dreams, it is always an exchange a bargain a trade off, always to do with my lack my loss my like my lust

egoic love is giving is FOR receiving, real love is giving IS receiving

[Razard86]

10 minutes ago, Dodo said:

You are again talking about absolute freedom. You can have that in a lucid dream, depending on how strong you become in lucid dreaming. 

In "Dreams of Awakening" book Charlie Morley (author) claims that you can have dreams where you can choose absolutely everything you can change scenery at will everything, closer to the absolute will you are talking about. That type of will is not relevant to waking life. How can you grow if you are not limited in some way? Forget about unlimited power, that is the dark side talking. 

You don't even have absolute freedom in a lucid dream because Absolute freedom= Being everything. Once you become a particular thing, you have created a constraint. Slavery is form. Because a form can only be one way, not another way. God is formless so can be everything at the same time. So the only true freedom is EVERYTHING, and that is why Everything is NOTHING.

People think greed just exists, greed is the desire to be everything expressed in a selfish ignorant manner.

Edited April 19 by Razard86

[gettoefl]

7 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Might not be able to escape the programming, but I can tweak it, ex programmer here. 

Eckhart Tolle talks about something CRAZY. How about, a way you can actually stop thinking? You might have heard about that. Now if you didn't have the choice to stop thinking sure, you're at the whim of your thoughts! But what if you knew how to stop thinking and break the chain of the mind ?

Already starting to see some freedom there. 

non thinking is another trap, it is an unhelpful if restful state similar to sleep, you are mindless floating in a void

what you need is awareness and then slowly but surely roll back the ego's vice like grip to truly recognise i myself dreamed this world and i will now undream it by forgiving it and seeing the utter perfection all around instead of the apparent decrepitude

the world isn't happening with me or to me but from me and for me, it's my classroom not my prison

[Dodo]

10 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You don't even have absolute freedom in a lucid dream because Absolute freedom= Being everything. Once you become a particular thing, you have created a constraint. Slavery is form. Because a form can only be one way, not another way. God is formless so can be everything at the same time. So the only true freedom is EVERYTHING, and that is why Everything is NOTHING.

People think greed just exists, greed is the desire to be everything expressed in a selfish ignorant manner.

How is absolute freedom being everything? If that was the case you are not free to not be everything? You are limited as to not being able to be limited. Please less conceptual thinking. Stop trying to grasp it or to think you grasped it, or that you can ever grasp it. What you are saying is complete nonsense from where I stand. 

 @gettoefl I got this for you, but I intuit Razard also needs to hear this particular talk. It's exactly what we are discussing. I know Razard is somewhat of a fan of Eckhart, so I am always confused when he sounds so much like he can't stop thinking even for a second and always analyses everything around him. 

Tell me if im being harsh Razard, just how I see it when you try to tell me what Absolute Will is, without having Absolute Will ( I know that cause you have no control over my bodymind, as a simple example, but I have other examples too)

Edited April 19 by Dodo

[Razard86]

3 minutes ago, Dodo said:

How is absolute freedom being everything? If that was the case you are not free to not be everything? You are limited as to not being able to be limited. Please less conceptual thinking. Stop trying to grasp it or to think you grasped it, or that you can ever grasp it. What you are saying is complete nonsense from where I stand. 

 @gettoefl I got this for you, but I intuit Razard also needs to hear this particular talk. It's exactly what we are discussing. I know Razard is somewhat of a fan of Eckhart, so I am always confused when he sounds so much like he can't stop thinking even for a second and always analyses everything around him. 

Tell me if im being harsh Razard, just how I see it when you try to tell me what Absolute Will is, without having Absolute Will ( I know that cause you have no control over my bodymind, as a simple example, but I have other examples too)

Freedom is formlessness because it can be everything. It's simple. You reject the truth and are just deluded. The only reason you can't jump 50 feet into the air is because you are a form. The only reason you cannot imagine a solar system into existence is because you are a form. A form is one way as opposed to another way and that is a constraint because it is locked into that expression of being.

So you are not free, because true freedom is selflessness. Self is slavery, selflessness is freedom.

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

Freedom is formlessness because it can be everything. It's simple. You reject the truth and are just deluded. The only reason you can't jump 50 feet into the air is because you are a form. The only reason you cannot imagine a solar system into existence is because you are a form. A form is one way as opposed to another way and that is a constraint because it is locked into that expression of being.

So you are not free, because true freedom is selflessness. Self is slavery, selflessness is freedom.

if you and everything is formless, there is no such thing as 50 feet in the air, where is your freedom. Stop intellectualizing. Follow what Eckhart is saying, I know you don't respect my words that much, im just some dude you drew a stick figure of on a forum. Im bound to be wrong in your mind before you even read and understand what Im saying, because you have an idea of me. 

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

You don't even have absolute freedom in a lucid dream because Absolute freedom= Being everything. Once you become a particular thing, you have created a constraint. Slavery is form. Because a form can only be one way, not another way. God is formless so can be everything at the same time. So the only true freedom is EVERYTHING, and that is why Everything is NOTHING.

People think greed just exists, greed is the desire to be everything expressed in a selfish ignorant manner.

I'll share with you dream experiences I've had. 

As a child I've had many natural lucid dreams, before even knowing about the concept lucid dreaming. It will be far too much to tell you every single dream I remember, and there are many spectacular ones, but I want to just focus on 2.  One from childhood, and one later on. 

In the first one, I was in my apartment (6th floor, very high up, btw this location has been a recurring location for many many many of my dreams both lucid and not throughout my life), and I immediately felt the urge to fly. I was obviously with a dream body, but I had a form. I jumped out of the window, and I actually FLEW, I can honestly sit here and tell you that I actually KNOW what it feels like to fly (without assistance), it felt absolutely amazing and free, better than sex, better than anything imaginable. I get goose bumps and chills just remembering that! I often forget, because it's just an experience in the past now. I can't actually fly, but I know what it feels like.

The second dream is one with LEO, yes our Leo here. I promise you I'm not lying, this actually happened in the dream. I was on a one to one Skype call with him and he was showing me where he lives, completely normal conversation, nothing crazy spiritual, although I was there for spiritual guidance. He showed me his modest wife, modest room, modest ukulele. He played a ukulele song for me to enjoy. I can't recall every single detail, just the ones I remember. Then at some point I dont know if he asked me something or did something with his hands, the memory has faded, but long story short, I merged with and became the entire dream. no longer a dream form, I moved not as a character within the dream, I moved as the dream itself! That's probably close to what you are talking about here of being Everything, although you will probably disagree again. But it was my actual experience, there and then, in the moment that I was the ENTIRE dream, absolutely everything.

I can't tell you much about that or what it feels like. I'll have to say "you had to be there", but sounds pretentious. It was only an experience. What I am trying to say with this second dream, is that I have actual experience of what you are saying about being everything, but it was in the dream state, not in the waking state. If I experience having sex within a dream, and its all just the same as real life sex (I've had those dreams as well), then could it be possible you can have REAL experiences within actual dreams? Maybe I do know what actual "Being everything" feels like and what actual flying feels like, without experiencing those in the waking state. But you assume that I don't have such experiences behind my belt, because you are talking to an idea of me, a stick figure you created, thinking you know everything about me, because of the words I write on a forum.

But within that dream even more amazing than being the entire dream was when I was speaking with Leo and was amazed at how he has the time of day to speak with me one to one and show me his life. As two separate forms. Relationships between objects and people, student and master, him playing a funny song for me, all that good stuff, which were no longer there when I was moving as the entire dream.

 

Edited April 19 by Dodo

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Dodo said:

if you and everything is formless, there is no such thing as 50 feet in the air, where is your freedom. Stop intellectualizing. Follow what Eckhart is saying, I know you don't respect my words that much, im just some dude you drew a stick figure of on a forum. Im bound to be wrong in your mind before you even read and understand what Im saying, because you have an idea of me. 

Sigh, you are too paradigm locked to understand what is being said. You know you are limited, and you don't have the power to stop that limitation. This means you are powerless. As a human you never had power to begin with because the human isn't the source of power. Power is that without form. Power is will. Will is singular. It has not opposite. As such it is completely free to be the way it expresses itself to be. And will has chosen in its intelligence to be Infinite Love which is EVERYTHING. It's completely unlimited. 

Also I don't care what Eckhart Tolle says because he spoon feeds you humans elementary concepts because he realizes he cannot share the truth with you entirely. But even he says there is no free will for any creation. If you knew that there was no difference between you and a stickman on a piece of paper, if you knew that compared to God a human is just some drawing on a piece of paper claiming to have power and control and a life, you would fall down on the floor in tears and say "No, No, it cannot be true!!" But it is. Compared to God, a human is a painting, an illustration, acting out the Will of God.

[Dodo]

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

non thinking is another trap, it is an unhelpful if restful state similar to sleep, you are mindless floating in a void

what you need is awareness and then slowly but surely roll back the ego's vice like grip to truly recognise i myself dreamed this world and i will now undream it by forgiving it and seeing the utter perfection all around instead of the apparent decrepitude

the world isn't happening with me or to me but from me and for me, it's my classroom not my prison

My point was not that you have to always not think. 

 My point: When you find out you have the option not to think, this adds an extra layer of choice, of free will. Even if you are unable to change your thoughts, you can choose not to follow them. Entirely your choice, but without knowing how to stop thinking, you don't have that choice.

Many people suffer of this, so I recommend Eckhart to many. Its the simplicity of that man. That interview on the park bench is the most ordinarily extraordinary video. Please watch it if you havent, or watch it again, its not like I havent watched it a million times. 

 

 

 

Edited April 19 by Dodo

[Dodo]

18 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Sigh, you are too paradigm locked to understand what is being said. You know you are limited, and you don't have the power to stop that limitation. This means you are powerless. As a human you never had power to begin with because the human isn't the source of power. Power is that without form. Power is will. Will is singular. It has not opposite. As such it is completely free to be the way it expresses itself to be. And will has chosen in its intelligence to be Infinite Love which is EVERYTHING. It's completely unlimited. 

Also I don't care what Eckhart Tolle says because he spoon feeds you humans elementary concepts because he realizes he cannot share the truth with you entirely. But even he says there is no free will for any creation. If you knew that there was no difference between you and a stickman on a piece of paper, if you knew that compared to God a human is just some drawing on a piece of paper claiming to have power and control and a life, you would fall down on the floor in tears and say "No, No, it cannot be true!!" But it is. Compared to God, a human is a painting, an illustration, acting out the Will of God.

"you humans" so you reveal you dividing the picture in "you humans" over there and me here. These humans are so foolish - says Razard while using his human hands to write. That's quite dishonest. 

You talk about will, in other comments you say you have no free will. Well if you are the will, then you must have been confused in earlier comments. You need to marinate in the truth. Me also. We shouldn't argue about nonsense.

For anything that you disagree with me and I disagree with you, we need to agree to disagree. You won't change your mind and I won't change my mind. It's useless. 

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

"you humans" so you reveal you dividing the picture in "you humans" over there and me here. These humans are so foolish - says Razard while using his human hands to write. That's quite dishonest. 

You talk about will, in other comments you say you have no free will. Well if you are the will, then you must have been confused in earlier comments. You need to marinate in the truth. Me also. We shouldn't argue about nonsense.

For anything that you disagree with me and I disagree with you, we need to agree to disagree. You won't change your mind and I won't change my mind. It's useless. 

Your playing mind games. You don't have will, you ARE will. And will is bound to be love. If you understood what was being communicated it would explain everything.

You love to be stuck in identity, because love is always bound to identity when it will itself to be identity. Unless you want to understand something outside your paradigm you have to will it to do it.

You are on these forums because you have a desire to know, but you are too corrupted by fear. So instead you play little mind games to distract instead of doing serious inquiry.

[Razard86]

On 4/19/2024 at 6:49 AM, abrakamowse said:

Thanks for this Razard. 

Took me awhile to figure this out....notice how it all makes sense? Truth is simple, the dishonesty of the world that brought us up deluded us. But the funny thing is, they have clues to us. They always talk about you have to play your hand but the human identity never asked to play the game to begin with. It just popped up out of nowhere from its perspective and was like "What is this?"

So that was the first clue...it didn't have any control over being here. Some people will say...but what about the people that say that you planned your life story. I would reply....that was God, a human identity is not given that level of power. This we all know to be true. The rest I posted? You can only understand if you are okay admitting, that you may not have any control whatsoever.

Understand that there is paradox in this will thing. The human has no control because its not the source of its existence, it is dependent upon the power of God to exist, like a T.V. that you plugged in depends on the electrical circuit for its power to be on. All the functions of the T.V. can only function if its plugged in, and notice if you gave the T.V. self awareness its abilities are based on how you constructed it. It can only do what it was designed to do and no more, and no less (less if it gets damaged). 

Now here is where it gets nuanced....God has all the power but it gave up a portion of its power to you. Since it gave up all its power to you the human identity it has no power over you. But this power is borrowed and will be given back at the death of the human vessel. Now what is this power you were given? This power is equivalent to your intelligence. So your greatest power is intelligence and intelligence is based on the ability to make sense of something that is observed. So your intelligence is truth ability, the ability to make sense of the truth. This ability is limited by bias, and memory. You are born ignorant of what humans are, and ignorant of how your human vessel functions. Your ability to have control in your life is your ability to figure out your human vessel and the vessel of those around you but the issue is....the more you study the human vessel and the world around you...the more you discover there is A LOT GOING ON. 

What every human discovers is that you have to work with life, not against it. If drinking water is good for your body you have to drink it to be healthy. If certain foods are good for your body you have to eat them to be healthy. If practicing something makes you better you have to practice to be better. But then there are issues called, fear, boredom/lack of interest, desires, that make it hard to do the truthful thing and instead do the opposite of what is good. This is the birth of the human struggle, they have to deal with an emotional system, and a body that desires and the emotions and desires are not always what is good for it. So you have to deal with your shadow which is your fears and desires that disconnect you from that which is good for you and now you understand why the world is the way it is.

If you ever played video games, just know some people are playing on a harder difficulty mode than you, and what makes it even harder is....you aren't told. There is no sign that say this person is playing on Super Difficult, Extreme Mode....but again there actually is. How do you know? Well the secret is there is only ONE PLAYER. So anyone you see who is terrible at this game we call life is God playing the hardest difficulty mode and anyone you see succeeding at the highest level is God playing on the easiest difficulty. It's like trying to race NASCAR with the best car and the worst car and all the drivers are completely identical. So understand that every human you see, if I put you in their body and gave you the exact same experiences as them, you would make the exact same decisions they made ABSOLUTELY. So Hitler...is YOU. Ghandi is YOU. Jesus is YOU!! It is all you!!! So the answer is....can you accept it?

Extra things to Consider: Also you might ask why did God create desires and emotions if they make us less intelligent? Easy....if you didn't have emotions and desires you would always do the right thing. Your mistakes would be easily fixed and there would be no challenge at all, for God to create a challenge for an intelligence with no emotions and desires would be for that intelligence to live in HELL, to live in an information system with so much chaos it would be insane (Not saying that type of universe doesn't exist because I just thought it up lol) so the only chaos Humans suffer is emotions and desires. This means all of our conflict is self-inflicted. Now the simple answer that answers every question is LOVE. God did all this for LOVE. What is love? Love is the acceptance of the existence of a particular thing. This acceptance is what allows it to exist. So God wants you to appreciate all that it has created without bias. God's goal is to share Infinite Love with all that it has created which is what we call death, and life is just a limited version of Infinite Love. So first you experience conditional, selfish limited love, then you get to experience being pure love. Thus you get to learn through experience....What True Love is. In your life can you become Love/Acceptance BEFORE DEATH?

Edited April 21 by Razard86

[abrakamowse]

@Razard86

Thanks Razza for your comment again. Agree with what you say regarding free will. It is something that I have always sensed but it is difficult for us to accept, but ultimately everything that happens is by the will of God. Not from the will of an ego that believes itself to be God hehehe... This text that you posted helps me refresh concepts, we "human beings" tend to forget what we learned, and fill those forgotten spaces with biases and as you well say with dishonesty to make us feel better. So is always good to refresh those ideas continually and keep that ego under control.

:-)