I Just Don't Understand Religious Fundamentalists

[sholomar]

If people want to be really self honest there's actually quite a bit of fundamentalism in this forum, you just don't see it because you believe your leftist philosophy is the right and best way for everyone to live... you consider yourselves tolerant but are you? I see conservative bashing and this sort of moral/intellectual elitism every time I visit.   It's not truly wanting individuals and cultures to develop at their own pace when you want to force feed stage green values on them and insist they embrace them.  Truth is, a lot of leftism causes a lot of depression and mental problems in a lot of people, especially boys/men, because a lot of it is counter to the way we evolved and are optimally designed to operate as the species homo sapiens.  Perhaps that utopia you seek is simply out of reach for our species without genetic engineering.

I do understand why these stage blue/red/orange cultures think they are right. When you are conditioned to think a certain way from birth it has a profound and strong programming into one's emotional/subconscious brain. Throw in a million year old genetic drives to behave certain ways... It's nothing personal... in fact human behavior should be taken very impersonally.. like a bear pooping in the woods. You change behavior through positive and negative reinforcement of what is considered "good" and "bad" and you have a culture. Humans in general like to fit in with the herd, or a herd, and so you sustain that culture through these cultural mores. Change takes time. It can't be forced.  Religion is just another tool of control, a way to make a person fit into something, to make them feel like they belong. Having a "God" to worship also satisfies the human craving to have an alpha male to guide them. Truth be told society would be much better if everyone followed the ten commandments, regardless of what the rest of the religion is about. I see wokeness as a sort of religion of it's own, to be honest... just another belief system for people to fit into.  Religion was the woke movement of Roman times...

Edited April 18 by sholomar

[Ayham]

@Carl-Richard

LOL, nice move, I suppose I am a new ager then 

I do think the stuff you mentioned fall into the "woo woo"  category, but just like you said, new age takes from different traditions, and it has many sides, so it is hard to define 

What would you name yourself, if we are playing the names game?

@Jodistrict Basically it is also dogma that thinks it's different, through brainwashing, etc.
Yet it has the capability to transform into something based on direct experience, which happens by things like, intense meditation, self inquiry, psychedelics, pranayamas, etc.

But even after that, some dogma will remain, which is where questioning and contemplation comes in

@sholomar

This is the correct attitude, I very much agree with you, basically letting people develop and seeing the value of religion, being aware of the spiral, I do think there is a lot of harm that happens by removing religions from society, which happened in the west and that led to a generation with so much mental illnesses and nihilism.

 This is what Nietzsche talked about by saying "god is dead, and we killed him" , as in we killed the religious values and put nothing in their place, which led to a lost society, therefore, most people who aren't able to form their own vision and principals, will find religion pretty valuable, but it is the extremism that makes me not like it, I understand the way they think and that it is necessary for their development, my post reads of my blue shadow very clearly.

This is actually why I wanted to leave this forum a year ago, but I ended up staying lol.

Your response is genius, thanks for contributing  

 

[Carl-Richard]

47 minutes ago, Ayham said:

What would you name yourself, if we are playing the names game?

A mix between New Age and traditionally religious person  And I mean that quite seriously. I'm not married to a single tradition (historically defined "tradition", e.g. Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam), but I'm also wary of the possible pitfalls of picking and choosing between different traditions in a way that gives you a malnourished or incomplete framework. In other words, I would want a New Age religion that is rich in its content, with multiple dimensions (mystical, intellectual, institutional, communal, ritual, aesthetic, law and ethic) and that is firmly integrated into the culture and larger society.

Why? Because I don't believe my introduction to New Age was at all safe, responsible, grounded or healthy. The lack of social nets, the lack of people to go to for help, is probably the biggest lack that New Age currently has. Other than that, the rampant anti-intellectualism, skepticism to ethics, narcissism and generally disorganized and lonely nature of the movement are important aspects as well.

Edited April 18 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Non duality dogma is just as fundamentalist as evangelical christianity.  

1 hour ago, sholomar said:

If people want to be really self honest there's actually quite a bit of fundamentalism in this forum

This is one reason why I think it's healthy to reclaim the word "religion" and not use the word "spirituality" as some "better than you" ("holier than thou") shield for ironically protecting your own dogma. It's simply the case that your idea of spirituality (most likely New Age for people here) is a set of beliefs and practices just like traditional religion. To constantly fixate on the ways which your idea of spirituality is not that (i.e. the mystical dimension), can be a definite source of self-deception. What we need more of is to fixate on the dimensions that New Age lacks, which is everything else than the mystical dimension (at least in this place).

Edited April 18 by Carl-Richard

[zurew]

22 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Other than that, the rampant anti-intellectualism, skepticism to ethics, narcissism and generally disorganized and lonely nature of the movement are important problems as well.

Thats very well put and those problems are generally very underappreciated here (especially the ethics part) .

[Ayham]

@Carl-Richard I like that, basically new age but more solid and grounded, something that has an actual richness of tradition and a solid basis.
it is also interesting to note that due to this fact, new agers aren't able to form organized sustainable communities, they turn corrupt really fast, because there is too much lack of rules, it is not designed to run a society, due to the lack of ethical and moral guidelines, which is part of why guru scandals happen so much lol.

 

 

[ExplorerMystic]

On 17/4/2024 at 0:36 AM, Ayham said:

@ExplorerMystic 

I liked your reply, if you have more to share ,please do 

Have studied other religions as well apart from Islam. But what is fascinating is that radicalized / Fanatic Muslims are themselves responsible for most of the problems within Islam. Yes, I don't buy the narrative of the West. When you attack /intrude / Invade a country. They have every right to defend themselves.

One good point to study is that the West never had any terrorism issues where no precious metal and mineral reserves were found. You can take the example of a poor African country. There is a good documentary on Bolivia (Not able to find it right now. Seems to be taken down). Once lithium reserves were found in Bolivia. Western countries (First World countries) started raising concerns about the government of Bolivia :) which doesn't allow Western corporations to enter their mining industry.

Coming back to our discussion point. As we were talking about Islam. The below input is very specific to it. There are other teaching as well for example Advait Vedanta, Kashmir Shaivism, Taoist, Buddhist, Old Testament, kabbalah etc. The list goes on. What I will say now will be contradictory. The teaching is helpful until you get some experience, Insights, or conviction out of it. Otherwise, there will be no difference between the fanatics & people who follow this teaching. If you have any hate toward any of these religions. You will not be able to explore the core teaching that's why open-mindedness has to be there.

At one point even this teaching has to be "let go".

 In the Quran, there is a mention of Extraterrestrial life. Free translation: It says that there are other creatures more advanced than humans which the Force (Allah) has created across dimensions, the Universe's. Until you didn't have experiences or insights into this. The statement would not be hair-raising. In other words, there is no way you will get this. Some say it is entities, state of consciousness, Alien, or unearthly consciousness. The other beautiful thing about it. You can't chase it. These experiences will come to you or may not come at all.

There are "No others". Let's take an example If there is a knob with infinite numbers. The human experience is between 0-5 (that's what this person has experienced). That's why Never be arrogant on this journey. Love/Infinity/One force/Allah/God will never give you experiences that you can't bear. Be humble; Be fearlessly in this Love like a warrior. The rest will be taken care of.

You can check the 99 names of Allah. Some Sufis mentioned these 99 names/Attributes/Forces are specific to human dimensions. There are infinite attributes of the one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam

Every religion at its core is speaking the truth but once it's institutionalized & used by people for their own goals. Corruption is bound to happen.

Each one of us has our journey (There are "No others". Words used to convey pointers). Refuse to be a mere parrot echoing spiritual concepts without internalizing their true meaning. Explore for yourself each & every word written by me or other forum members, anything you hear from the internet, people, books, etc. 

How to check if the mind is creating another concept of religion, Non-duality, anything you do to reach the "Truth" is always remember that "Truth" will bring you peace, clarity, and a deep sense of conviction.

 

[hyruga]

Everyone wants to be identified with something. They need a sense of belonging and a place where they can have control and where they can exercise some leadership. So it's not surprising religious leaders becoming more and more religious.

However, one point of self actualization is to break away from identities and rise to a higher level of consciousness.

Edited April 20 by hyruga