Israel is being attacked

[Danioover9000]

   Good take by Hassan:

 

[Razard86]

On 4/13/2024 at 7:26 PM, Heaven said:

Since October 7th I emphasized to look macro rather than micro. 

Iran attacking Israel directly is something that didn’t happen over a decade and this is a game changer.

The war was never about Israel and Gaza.

It was always Iran and their proxies.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2024-04-13/u-s-support-for-israel-ironclad-as-iran-launches-airborne-attack

 

From my limited perspective (I'm not an expert on this conflict) it seems more an issue with European influence in the middle eastern region not being desired. I get my opinion from how Israel was constructed and the reaction to that construction.

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080016/israel-history-zionism-war-1948

[Leo Gura]

On 4/18/2024 at 7:09 AM, Nivsch said:

I don't understand what you mean.

I saw now that the conservative assesments give Gaza war a ratio of roughly 1:2. 66% of the killed are civilians and 33% hamas terrorists.

Even 1.5-1.7 civilians to every terrorist according to Israeli assesments from January-February.

This goes both ways. Apply this logic to Oct 7th and all of Hamas activity.

[Heaven]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This goes both ways. Apply this logic to Oct 7th and all of Hamas activity.

The difference between the two, is that Hamas was targeting everyone they could(Nova festival is an example). The army came to help them and some of them died as a result. 

Hamas activity is protected by civilians and they die as a result. 

Life is deeper than statistics.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Heaven said:

Life is deeper than statistics.

Exactly. Now say this to the Zionists.

Edited April 19 by Leo Gura

[Heaven]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Exactly. Now say this to the Zionists.

Haha I like how you react to what serves your propaganda. Zionists aren’t the world’s problem. Be aware what hate towards Jews has done in the past. History is repeating itself and you choose what side of history you want to be on.

[Danioover9000]

@Heaven

15 minutes ago, Heaven said:

Haha I like how you react to what serves your propaganda. Zionists aren’t the world’s problem. Be aware what hate towards Jews has done in the past. History is repeating itself and you choose what side of history you want to be on.

   That's irrelevant to the argument to do both the moot and bailey fallacy, and false dichotomy fallacy here, assuming @Leo Gura is reacting to what serves his propaganda when Leo is clearly showing you the hypocrisy that both Palestinian supporters and especially the Zionists are applying to each other logically. Within the century the Zionists have established their Jewish state through ethnic cleansing and displacement, to finalizing their state of Israel when they buddied up to the USA, so of course the world's problem includes Zionists because Zionists also make up the top 10% and are connected to powerful people, not to mention they did a lot of espionage in collecting information about the West Bank and Gaza and other areas. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Heaven said:

how you react to what serves your propaganda.

I don't do propaganda.

Have you lost your mind?

Edited April 19 by Leo Gura

[Seth]

@Leo Gura Can you elaborate more about applying the logic of death ratios both ways? It sounds like you are conflating terrorism with collateral damage in war, but I have faith you wouldn't do that. I am confused. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Seth said:

collateral damage in war,

The military actions of Zionists go beyond mere collateral damage.

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Heaven said:

s that Hamas was targeting everyone they could

So did Israel with their indiscrimiate bombing of Gaza.

 

4 hours ago, Heaven said:

Hamas activity is protected by civilians and they die as a result.

Israeli government activities are protected by the Israeli people that elect those politicians (Hey they are a democracy)  and they died by Palestinian attacks as a result.

See how ugly your logic seems when I turn it against you.

 

Edited April 20 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This goes both ways. Apply this logic to Oct 7th and all of Hamas activity.

But hamas came here with their preplanned intention to kill as much civillians as they can.

IDF came to Gaza in response (didn't want that, and the ~10 Billion dollar upper and under ground fences it built show that) to kill hamas, and a bad and not careful policy made too much civillians to get killed too, but this wasn't desirable.

Edited April 20 by Nivsch

[BlessedLion]

i

Edited April 20 by BlessedLion
I

[BlessedLion]

7 hours ago, Heaven said:

Haha I like how you react to what serves your propaganda. Zionists aren’t the world’s problem. Be aware what hate towards Jews has done in the past. History is repeating itself and you choose what side of history you want to be on.

The hypocrisy is outstanding. The Zionist are literally committing genocide right now. They are on the Nazi side of history 

[Vrubel]

 

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This goes both ways. Apply this logic to Oct 7th and all of Hamas activity.

If Hamas was stopped by the border guards on 7/10, you would extoll Hamas for being such noble and honorable fighters only targeting the military and scrutinizing the IDF for making civilian casualties in the retaliation. See the perversion.

Ironically to call Hamas human animals and savages is more truthful. 

I understand you can be critical but also I am kinda skeptical about much of that edgy equivalating. Israel would get scrutinized for everything it does because people are so blindly ideological on this Issue and mush every little thing to demonize Israel to the max employing hyperbolism. If Israel's approach to the war were different, maybe a smaller-scale invasion people would still be shouting about genocide and all kinds of demonizing cringe. I cannot emphasize this point enough.  

Edited April 20 by Vrubel

[StarStruck]

Israel is going to get a smacking.  

[Nivsch]

36 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

people are so blindly ideological on this Issue and mush every little thing to demonize Israel to the max employing hyperbolism

This is so crystaly clear transparent.

Edited April 20 by Nivsch

[Heaven]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't do propaganda.

Have you lost your mind?

Just by the fact that you’re using terms that no one is using like Zionist. Showing me that for some reason you let the media brainwashed your mind. 
This situation is much more complicated than Jewish people established a country in this area. If Israel was in Cyprus the same thing would happen just through the air and the ocean. 
Israel is a proxy of the US and Gaza is a proxy of Iran. It can’t be clearer than that.

[zazen]

17 minutes ago, Heaven said:

Just by the fact that you’re using terms that no one is using like Zionist. Showing me that for some reason you let the media brainwashed your mind. 
This situation is much more complicated than Jewish people established a country in this area. If Israel was in Cyprus the same thing would happen just through the air and the ocean. 
Israel is a proxy of the US and Gaza is a proxy of Iran. It can’t be clearer than that.

The point of using the term zionist is in fact to differentiate between the different shades of Jewish people ie apply nuance to complexity. Not every Jewish person is a zionist or a ultra-zionist. Imagine discussing Islamic terrorism and addressing terrorists as 'da muslims be crazy' implying that every muslim is a Islamist. 

Ardent zionists seem to be incapable of self-awareness and applying their same line of logic to the very people they harm in their obsession with themselves. Case in point:

 

Edited April 20 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@zazen Zionism = The aspiration to establish a Jewish state in the land they had sovereignty in the past.

The decision to interpret it in a "fundamentalist" manner is arbitrary and subjective.

The original term is healthy, or to the very least neutral, and does not say anything against the right of the Arabs to have their own state too in this land, aside the Jewish one.

Edited April 20 by Nivsch