Israel is being attacked

[tvaeli]

I must empathize my point about Jewish modernism and american music coming from Satan. Muslims and Russians are connected by this understanding (my father is Russian and I really don't want to go into argument with him about this).

In younger religion, old men always say that the additional good-evil paradox of youth comes from satan, and so do their modernized views. Here, the American music coming from Satan - but the fathers of those American people also told them, the hippies and others, who left their homes, that their more liberal views come from Satan. It's generally known that more liberal views come from Satan and the God was originally very traditional, and the old men die if they don't follow their traditions like animals do. Young start with philosophy and thinking and from Jesus to Socrates, this is very dangerous. Here, by the old of our own - they were really younger in terms of their history, and Arabs are very young in these terms, so they naturally think like our old men and find some agreement as well. For example, small families of modern era come from Satan, as God said we must become many. But we also have the overpopulation and need to stay in family budget and in our given lands. I can see where these opposites, the liberal and traditional, the yin and yang in both orders, come from. But this archetype of big, strong family listening traditional music and classics is so strong that it has to be understood by Jews - they are one of the most modern societies as they proudly say, and this makes them one of the most "Satanistic" for the older men and younger traditions of theirs; they leave their homes and fight for freedom, today the religious freedom as well. This all is not tolerated very much and they must somehow handle this archetype as this is very typical ..young muslims, they are "from Satan" as well, already for their families. Very old religions don't care any more, they simply state that "youth is from Satan as usual" and that they did the same thing when they were young, they were "from Satan".

This conception maybe helps in seeing the whole paradox of war beween England, America, Europe and Israel on one side; and more traditional Russia, China, and Muslims on the other side. It's the typical family paradox seen as young becoming rebels, leaving homes and fighting their countries more free in philosophical thinking. Those youth and old really cannot understand each others.

[tvaeli]

1 minute ago, Heaven said:

Human being are in a search of a purpose.

Israel developed the iron dome. 

Palestinians developing rockets.

Can’t you see the difference ?

Your gandfather not giving you the money, because you are punk or rock-n-roll. You earning your own money. Finally the family forgives. Can you see the difference?

[Vrubel]

Reading this thread: 

[tvaeli]

The modern conceptions, which are in question:

• Overcoming the Good and Bad - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Good_and_Evil ..this work was attacked by Catholic church, or at least this party of thinking, and the Muslims represents the same traditional perspective to any resulting thoughts.
• "Beyond God and Satan", "Beyond God and non-God" - God is so essential that this kind of liberation is really hard to conceptualize. This is a really deep process and it's rather about the Natural Laws being non-changing (concept, which exists even in belief of God - he is absolutely fair, treating everyone equally, so that natural laws would appear). God is kind of psychological - when you live in this archetype of doing it yourself, which is becoming adult in sense of religion, your model must be without God as father-in-home.
• Working with the dark energy, understanding the evil. Evil is inevitable part of creation, but as a religion or young person starts to comprehend this, the elder cannot understand. It's also a very deep philosophy, which sees that Satan must be somehow a creation of God and we cannot survive without giving this creation some freedom. Buddhism, as very old religion, has overcome this - in a sense, like God and no-God does not exist, also Good and Evil does not exist. To know what this really means - before these things become adult and healthy, it looks like plain Satanism. Raise of freedoms of such kind were hard.
• Individuation. An individual somehow creates their destiny and is not a part of their family and tribe, following the same business like a slave. This is a thing hard to understand for traditional person.
• Philosophical thought. Guessing all values and truths, developing philosophies, which are neutral to things we cannot know ..ideally, in the end, we know everything again, but in the beginning, we eat this apple of good and bad.
• Some more conceptions.

Tradition is in id phase, and follows the parents without questioning. In certain age, people fall into sin and do not follow the parents - this is the liberal revolution. They experiment and they also have their fights and battles for truth, they do sin. As they grow old, they learn again something the children knew, they become enlightened.

When the religions enter the battles around this, they become somewhat shadowed - they were told to love each other, but in the battles they forget this and they are far from truth and enlightened states. So they are very serious that their religions tell them not to love each others, they cannot see it from outside perspective of their current problems and troubles. In time, they learn to see this thing from higher perspective and know that they always become friends again, so that the battles would be less serious.

[Nivsch]

21 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@LSD-Rumi  I am biased because if I don't stand for the pureness of my truth and deep insight that I received through my experience, nobody will. 

My first loyalty is standing against all the lies and demonization. If you're an intelligent and reasonable person critical of Israel. That can be fair, I have no beef with you. But you see, this issue often goes hand in hand with lies, twisting and stretching, blatant hypocrisy and all kinds of ugliness for which I will not stand.

+1 ❤

[Merkabah Star]

You said what you did but its clearly not true. 😀

you must think everyone is stupid. 

[Raze]

6 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I don't understand what you mean.

I saw now that the conservative assesments give Gaza war a ratio of roughly 1:2. 66% of the killed are civilians and 33% hamas terrorists.

Even 1.5-1.7 civilians to every terrorist according to Israeli assesments from January-February.

70% of dead Gazans are women and minors.

Do you believe every man they killed and 4% of the women and minors were Hamas? Otherwise your number makes no sense.

Edited April 18 by Raze

[Heaven]

51 minutes ago, Raze said:

70% of dead Gazans are women and minors.

Do you believe every man they killed and 4% of the women and minors were Hamas? Otherwise your number makes no sense.

Let me guess..You got this information from a biased source or Hamas.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

70% of dead Gazans are women and minors.

Do you believe every man they killed and 4% of the women and minors were Hamas? Otherwise your number makes no sense.

According to Gaza health ministry?

[Raze]

24 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

According to Gaza health ministry?

 

37 minutes ago, Heaven said:

Let me guess..You got this information from a biased source or Hamas.

 

Quote

Two studies published in The Lancet concluded that the GHM numbers were plausible and credible:[19] the first was authored by scholars at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and the second by scholars at Johns Hopkins University. The Johns Hopkins University study verified GHM reported deaths by looking at the UNRWA's reported deaths of its staff members.[20] The UNRWA reported deaths are also publicly available, and independent of the GHM casualty reports. The study found GHM reported death rate (5.3 deaths per 1000) was consistent with that reported by UNRWA (7.8 deaths per 1000, as of Nov 10, 2023).[20] It also found temporal consistency between the two independent reports.[20]

The  London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine conducted several analyses on the data and concluded it was "implausible" that GHM engaged in data fabrication.[21] The study found that GHM's reported crude mortality rate in the age bracket of 20-59 years was broadly similar to the mortality rate of UNRWA employees and the mortality rate of Gaza's health-care workers (reported by the World Health Organization).[21] The study also found that the number of buildings reported damaged by the Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Public Works was consistent with satellite imagery-based estimates conducted by Sky News (both arrived at the figure of 7%).[21] The study looked at 7,028 reported deaths (Oct 7 to Oct 26), and found only one case of a duplicated identification number and one case of implausible age.[21]

Pennsylvania professor Abraham Wyner wrote in Tablet that the GHM casualty figures were "faked";[22] to which Columbia professor Les Roberts responded that GHM numbers were accurate and probably even an underestimate.[19] Wyner's main argument was that from Oct. 26 - Nov. 10, the number of deaths per day is 270 with "strikingly little variation".[22] CalTech statistician Lior Pachter responded that Wyner had cherrypicked a particular period, outside of which the variance was higher; even within Wyner's picked window the daily deaths had a standard deviation of 42.25 and variance of 1,785.[23] Wyner also argued that data showed lack of temporal correlation between total deaths, and those of women and children. In response, Marine Corps professor James Joyner quoted an opinion that GHM updates total deaths immediately, but there is a lag in updating the proportion of women and children, making time correlations "meaningless".[24]

American and Israeli governments

Historically, the US State Department has relied on the GHM data for its annual human rights reports.[11] For example, it cited GHM numbers in a public report in March 2023.[9] On 26 October, 2023, US President Joe Bidenstated he had "no confidence" in the casualty numbers being reported.[25][26] Subsequently, National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby asserted that the death toll cannot be taken "at face value".[12] However, the US Assistant Secretary of State said that actual death toll was most likely "even higher" than what the GHM reported.[27]On 10 November 2023, the Wall Street Journal reported that the US intelligence community has growing confidence that death toll reports from the Gaza Health Ministry are roughly accurate. The article also reported that despite US officials had growing confidence, they did not have enough information to confirm for sure.[28]

In January 2024, Israeli news magazine Mekomit reported that Israeli intelligence officials had concluded that Health Ministry casualty reports are generally reliable and are used in briefings to senior officials.[29] In follow-up reporting, an unnamed official told Vice News, "The numbers are heavily relied up for official briefings on civilian casualties because with the exception of strikes on high-value targets, where senior officials are briefed on collateral damage, no civilian casualty figures or estimates are collected [by the Israeli military]."[30]

 

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

You said what you did but its clearly not true. 

I write what I mean and I mean what I write. I am not playing games or hiding things from you. I am perfectly within my integrity here. You guys constantly do projections and vilify me. This is just your narrative mushing at work. 

 

For example, I have great respect for people like John Stewart and Bernie Sanders even if I don’t always agree. Cenk is also a good example though his views and mannerisms are more untruthful and cringy in my eyes. But he has genuine hart for people, including for Israelis. He made a passionate monologue on 7/10. That won’t go unnoticed. Many other extreme leftwing people who get normally outraged by the slightest “transgression”would not care or even be perversely gleeful.

However I have zero respect for people that make a living of just totally ripping into Israelis and every little thing they do, getting all hyperbolic and having zero consideration for their very legitimate perspective. These are the manipulative and ugly agenda games being played. On some types of weak willed persons that lack critical thinking this might be effective. 
 

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

you must think everyone is stupid. 

You contemplate for yourself how well you make your intelligence shine in your posts 

[Karmadhi]

17 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

having zero consideration for their very legitimate perspective.

Hamas also has a pretty legitimate perspective considering everything.

I feel for them even though I do not agree with them nor like them.

How come you dont?

Since we are expected to understand the pov of mass murderers (Israel) why dont you do the same for Hamas?

Edited April 18 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

31 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

However I have zero respect for people that make a living of just totally ripping into Israelis and every little thing they do, getting all hyperbolic and having zero consideration for their very legitimate perspective.

Of course there is a totally unproportional judgment of Israel in comparison to the vast majority of war zone conflicts outhere, blatantly uncompatible to far worse killing ratios in them, to which the explanation - to this special judgment - cannot be found in the logical world but in the spiritual one.

Anyway, just like you mentioned, me too have no problem at all with fair critisism, as long as the discussion is reasonable and not devloved into demonization, and it is still possible occassionaly here, though not most of the time.

Edited April 18 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

@Raze the ratio is horrible irregardless of source. This is how war looks like in that environment against such an enemy devoid of any honor. You don’t like the ratio that Israel has set after 7/10 then release the hostages and surrender.

Don’t overlook Hamas in this equation and all the ways in which Israel withholds itself as the more powerful party. Keep in mind that any consideration and accountability Israel has is without qualms royally exploited by Hamas

 

[Karmadhi]

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Of course there is a totally unproportional judgment of Israel in comparison to any other conflict outhere, to which the explanation cannot be found in the logical world but in the spiritual one.

I would say the amount of hate Hamas got for killing 800 civilians I have not seen anywhere like ever.

In most wars far more civilians died and I did not see the outrage and condemnation.

In a way 800 Israelis are worth more to Western governments that tens of thousands of other groups.

"Biggest massacre of Jews since the holocaust ".

I did not see any of this rhetoric when Armenians were massacred by Azeris.

Where was the "Biggest massacre of Armenians since the Armenian genocide" let us not globally condemn Azerbajan etc.

Hmmmm

Perhaps most of Western media and governments have a clear bias towards Isarelis.

Edited April 18 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Heaven said:

Let me guess..You got this information from a biased source or Hamas.

UN I think confirmed them. More trustworthy than Israel.

[Vrubel]

1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:

Hamas also has a pretty legitimate perspective considering everything.

I feel for them even though I do not agree with them.

How come you dont?

Since we are expected to understand the pov of mass murderers why dont you do the same for Hamas?

Dude… I dont care about your cutesy emphatizing with Hamas. You are an absolute fool to be proud of that.

there is understandable and there is understandable.

Hamas must be fought like the absolute scourge it is. Understand that.

 

[Karmadhi]

@Vrubel I do. Also most of the IDF and Israeli need to be hanged for crimes against humanity.

No partial justice.

I do not hold the IDF more highly than Hamas at this point. It is like comparing Hitler and Stalin to me.

Trash vs garbage.

3 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

You are an absolute fool to be proud of that.

I can say the same of you being proud of Israel genocide and mass murder.

 

3 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Dude… I dont care about your cutesy emphatizing with Hamas

Then do not expect us to empathize with Israel. Why should we? For some reason you consider the Israeli cause for "self defense" more legitimate than Palestinian cause for end of occupation. 

Edited April 18 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi This is laughable and totally absurd and out of logic.

Edited April 18 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

@Karmadhi The absurdity of your view is layed bare in your last post.