Israel is being attacked

[Heaven]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why are you being so aggressive to people here?

Tone it down. It's ugly to read your posts.

He is a perfect example of extreme Islam. 
Online bullying is common these days(Especially Among the pro Palestinians community) .I bet he wouldn’t tell me that in person.

The way he speaks is unacceptable by any way. He should be banned. In reality he would be in prison.

Edited April 17 by Heaven

[Nivsch]

17 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Yes, most Iranians are very chill, educated and level-headed people. Their country got hijacked and held hostage by extremists. Similarly how Gaza got Hijacked by Hamas. However, there are clear differences of course. Arabs often shoot themselves in the foot with brainless riffraff behavior based on pettiness and dogmatic pride. Iranians are more brainy and calculating which also makes their regime more dangerous. They can definitely play their enemies but most of all they play the Arabs. The Palestinians as disposable pawns and the Lebanese Shia/Hezbollah as an extension of their armed forces putting the country of Lebanon at great peril. They also plot and scheme against other Arab countries that have moderate and decent leadership Like Jordan, Egypt and Saudi.

It's so Ironic that the people who love Palestinians so much are so defensive of the Iranian government.

Agree completely.

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

What’s interesting is how restrained the Iranian attack was in response to the deadly bombing of their embassy.  It was not meant to kill but to demonstrate capability.   The Israeli air defense spent billions of dollars to shoot down a few million dollars worth of drones.  It also demonstrates that the Iranian leadership has considerable restraint and self control.  They weren’t provoked into over reaction.  This is in contrast to Israel which excessively overreacted killing thousands of innocent citizens and tilting the global south against them resulting is a strategic loss.    It shows the Iranian leadership are not the fanatics they are portrayed in the propaganda of the Western media.

Yes they are angels. How they sponsor terror so calculately and quietly.

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Why are you being so aggressive to people here?

Tone it down. It's ugly to read your posts.

   I agree, but it's also a bit challenging for that guy. It's like talking to holocaust deniers but these are denying what's happening and had happened to Palestinians for the past 80 years.

[zazen]

9 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

What’s interesting is how restrained the Iranian attack was in response to the deadly bombing of their embassy.  It was not meant to kill but to demonstrate capability.   The Israeli air defense spent billions of dollars to shoot down a few million dollars worth of drones.  It also demonstrates that the Iranian leadership has considerable restraint and self control.  They weren’t provoked into over reaction.  This is in contrast to Israel which excessively overreacted killing thousands of innocent citizens and tilting the global south against them resulting is a strategic loss.    It shows the Iranian leadership are not the fanatics they are portrayed in the propaganda of the Western media.

Makes one question who is the more rational actor or not. Saw this interesting comment on Twitter:

“The IDF openly says several (i.e., more than one) Iranian missiles hit Nevatim.

They say that 5-7 missiles hit the base and gloat at Irans failure. Iran was not seeking a knockout blow, but rather a demonstration of capability.

Nevatim was defended by the world’s most advanced integrated anti-missile defense shield which incorporated Arrow 2, David’s Sling, THAAD, and Patriot 3 with the AN/TPY-2 X-band surveillance and targeting radar. This system was designed to exclusively defend against the Iranian medium-range ballistic missile threat.

And yet…5-7 missiles hit Nevatim. The Israelis have acknowledged 2 runways and three warehouse structures hit. 

Not a knockout blow—it wasn’t intended as such. 

But any BDA expert would note that the point of impact was center mass, a clear indication of precision guidance.

5-7 missiles hit the world’s most heavily defended location, defeating an integrated ABM defense that was custom built to defeat the missiles it failed to shoot down.

The point of this exercise is to note that if Iran had send 30 missiles at Nevatim, the base would be inoperable.

Israel knows this. So does the U.S. Army. Which is why Iran has achieved strategic deterrence over Israel without a single loss of life compared to Israel’s. Which was the whole point of the operation.  

Were Israel to retaliate in a tit for tat and escalate from this point it would indicate an irrational leadership in Israel with a deadly arrogance that blinds them.

Iran also seized a ship of the wealthiest families in Israel (Ofers) and the worlds largest shipping company to demonstrate their control of the strait of Hormuz and the capability of shattering the energy markets and global financial system were their existence to be threatened.

Who is the more rational, restrained actor in the region?”

 

They seek deterrence through demonstration rather than devastation.

Edited April 17 by zazen

[Nivsch]

33 minutes ago, zazen said:

They seek deterrence through demonstration rather than devastation.

The no1 word I heard in Israeli media everywhere until oct 6th.

That is what Israel wanted all the time to make hamas and Hezbollah feel. Deterrence.

Israel wanted to sink in a comfortable western life and avoid war at all cost. Too much I would say.

That is also why Israel has invested 1 Billion dollar on a fence around Gaza and more Billion in an underground anti tunnel obstacle.

Israel didn't want this war at all, and did everything to run from a war.

Unfornunately this cenception has been broken on oct 7th.

Edited April 17 by Nivsch

[LSD-Rumi]

"According to reports, the proximate cause was Israel’s misjudgment in its strike on an Iranian diplomatic compound in Syria that resulted in the deaths of two senior Iranian generals, among others. This attack was seen as a breach of the undeclared set of “rules” that had previously been followed, with Tehran maintaining that the location attacked was tantamount to Iranian soil." Bing-Copilot

It's kind of two-faced of Israel, isn't it? Acting like the victim while bombing embassies? The Iranian retaliation actually seems pretty reasonable when you think about it. If any country had their top generals taken out and their embassy bombed, you'd expect a serious backlash, maybe even a full-blown war. Iran is not interested in wars, if it was, it would have happened a long time ago. But Israel keeps provoking Iran, That I don't know, what will happen next.

Edited April 17 by LSD-Rumi

[Vibes]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Why are you being so aggressive to people here?

Tone it down. It's ugly to read your posts.

He's right in this particular post. Israelis here need some shock treatment against hypocrisy / double standards.

Edited April 17 by Vibes

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Vibes said:

He's right in this particular post. Israelis here need some shock treatment against hypocrisy / double standards.

A Palestinian state recognized on the 1968 borders and kicking out all settlers would be a good start.

 

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, Vibes said:

He's right in this particular post. Israelis here need some shock treatment against hypocrisy / double standards.

The immaturity here and people not standing different worldviews and opinions is absolutely apparent.  

The hivemind lashing out, what’s new. 

[tvaeli]

It's very hard to reason why Israel should not attack Iran and Gaza right now, and it's very hard to reason, why Gaza and Iran should not attack Israel right now. Saying this to any side of the war would be simply stupid.

But deeply, it's very easy to reason, why we don't want another world war today. I think Muslims are a younger brother of the Jews, and their "war for God" is typical for a young monotheistic religion; Christians had similar urge for a war, when they were young, and probably the Jews were also fighting for their God somewhere - from times I know they had more intelligent war for their God with Roman empire, and that was not so agressive. I think when they look for it in their history, they find some complex like this.

When you are a young religion, your God has very narrow definition. Anything we could connect with the word "God" must be as diverse and big as the World and the Universe itself; the ethical principles might also be seen as "God" and they also have this diverse nature. God must have existed in all places and times, and played very different roles, which fit the development stage and culture of the society. When this narrow dimension is compared with the world and other religions, they seem to be false, or evil; and Islam definitely has some archetypes well-developed to protect, for example their family structures are possibly more healthy.

I think for Jews it's important that they see Islam as young religion, which has limited understanding about protecting their deity and cannot find the Name of God in other religions; Jews themselves are more calmed down and some old eastern religions are even much more calmed down, accepting "other Gods" as their own. It's inevitable to protect their own country at the same time, but having a strong structure to create connections with "enlightened Islam", or to inspire such thing to be born, and to compare the values of different religions to show they are deeply the same, to find how the same symbolic narrative comes out in different physical environments and cultural contexts, and to bring a kind of "scientific revolution", where religions are deeply philosophized to find their deep roots - enlightenment in Muslim countries should be one of the main considerations of Israel and the Jews world-wide, and also others. We cannot obviously kill all the Muslims, and thus we cannot protect anything indefinitely with military power - there needs to be a lots of growth of intermutual ethical values, and the bottom limits of where they can fall; if God gave two nations the religions, it's important to see the same God shining through.

For me the attack to Israel by Gaza changed this part ..before I was quite angry about Israel, despite this was from the past, but now I cannot see anyhow, how I could completely be on the Muslim side - but I was somewhat excited with the Israel and Jewish conception of Paradise, and to grow this, I think they should learn to integrate with other religions. I think the world can never have one world religion.

[Raze]

 

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

The immaturity here and people not standing different worldviews and opinions is absolutely apparent.  

The hivemind lashing out, what’s new. 

Don't use his ugly outbursts as cover for your obvious bias on this issue.

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

46 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

The immaturity here and people not standing different worldviews and opinions is absolutely apparent.  

The hivemind lashing out, what’s new. 

   Nothing new, same old virtue signaling from your side as well as his a bit, just you're the one instigating here a bit more overall with your denial of the other side.  

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Vibes said:

He's right in this particular post. Israelis here need some shock treatment against hypocrisy / double standards.

This is by itself a very judgmental statement.

Every side will look at himself.

Edited April 17 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't use his ugly outbursts as cover for your obvious bias on this issue.

I have a healthy bias. I don't cover it, I am proud to stand where I stand. But on this issue, I am also reasonable and have deep insight that you might not have.

[LSD-Rumi]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

I have a healthy bias. I don't cover it, I am proud to stand where I stand. But on this issue, I am also reasonable and have deep insight that you might not have.

There is no healthy bias. Actually, just  Using this term, means you are very badly biased.

[Nivsch]

13 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

There is no healthy bias. Actually, just  Using this term, means you are very badly biased.

For sure there is.

Bias is Experience too. It goes both ways. A personal experience from your angle.

Especially an Israeli one when the issue is Israel-Palestine.

You can call it bias, I would call it an important piece of the puzzle you cannot just overlook and actually you need. 

I am sure that every one here has his own life experience that design his emotions about many important issues, including this.

Everyone see the issue from a slightly different angle what is inevitable.

Edited April 18 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

@LSD-Rumi  I am biased because if I don't stand for the pureness of my truth and deep insight that I received through my experience, nobody will. 

My first loyalty is standing against all the lies and demonization. If you're an intelligent and reasonable person critical of Israel. That can be fair, I have no beef with you. But you see, this issue often goes hand in hand with lies, twisting and stretching, blatant hypocrisy and all kinds of ugliness for which I will not stand.

 

Edited April 17 by Vrubel

[Karmadhi]

16 hours ago, Vrubel said:

My first loyalty is standing against all the lies and demonization. If you're an intelligent and reasonable person critical of Israel. That can be fair, I have no beef with you. But you see, this issue often goes hand in hand with lies, twisting and stretching, blatant hypocrisy and all kinds of ugliness for which I will not stand.

Ironic considering Israel has been caught lying countless times and is one of the least credible countries out there among rich ones.

Standing against lies is fine, then you should criticize Israel lying through their teeth 24/7.

Starting from them murdering 7 Western aid workers that were giving food to starving kids and then shamelessly saying it was an accident  although it is proved they were hit 3 times.

If you stand with Truth, you stand against Israel's bullshit.

So you do not stand with truth.

If it was just me saying this, then you can make the case that I am biased and a hater.

But when Leo, alongisde every non Israeli on this forum has called that out, then it speaks a lot.

It is time you reflect.

 

Edited April 18 by Karmadhi