Don't Get Fooled by RFK Jr

[pregnantplatypuss]

In response to Leo's blog post "Don't Get Fooled by RFK Jr" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cedLFR_SNKE)...

I’d like to address the assertion that a vote for RFK is effectively a vote for Trump. This perspective suggests that because one RFK staffer expressed a preference for Trump over Biden, the RFK campaign is aiming to split the vote, ultimately aiding Trump if RFK doesn’t win. Here are a couple of points to consider:

1. Staff Statements vs. Campaign Philosophy: It’s important to note that the views expressed by a single staffer do not necessarily represent the entire campaign or its supporter base. Just as one member or moderator doesn’t represent an entire forum, we shouldn’t generalize a campaign's stance based on one comment.

2. The Value of Electoral Choice: The argument that a vote for RFK is a vote for Trump rests on the assumption that RFK's candidacy will primarily draw votes away from Biden, potentially benefiting Trump. While this is a valid concern, it’s also possible that RFK’s presence could energize different segments of the electorate or shift the political discussion in meaningful ways. Advocating for voters to support the candidate they truly believe in is crucial, even if it comes with risks. Sometimes, making strides in political progress involves tough decisions and potential setbacks.

The broader discussion about whether Biden, RFK, or Trump are preferable candidates is separate. It’s essential to challenge the notion that voting for one's preferred candidate is inherently harmful because it might 'spoil' the election. Encouraging a vibrant and diverse political discourse means supporting the right to vote according to one's convictions, not just strategic considerations.

 

[Leo Gura]

A single staffer could have gone rogue, however I suspect that many of his staff tacitly approve of her words given how confidently she was saying it.

[Raze]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A single staffer could have gone rogue, however I suspect that many of his staff tacitly approve of her words given how confidently she was saying it.

Then why is RFK courting the right with his anti-Ukraine and Covid opinions, which he is most known for? At this point he takes more votes from trump than Biden.

[Hardkill]

9 minutes ago, Raze said:

Then why is RFK courting the right with his anti-Ukraine and Covid opinions, which he is most known for? At this point he takes more votes from trump than Biden.

Yeah, that was the initial thought, but the Kennedy name, his populist and anti-establishment environmental policies, some of his economic populist views, anti-war stances, etc. has given a serious cause for concern for Biden and the Democrats.

However, RFK jr. has not offered any substantive policies or ideas or even a coherent credible vision to address any of these issues for the country.

Edited April 12 by Hardkill

[Raze]

Just now, Hardkill said:

Yeah, that was the initial thought, but the Kennedy name, his populist and anti-establishment environmental policies, and some of his economic populist views, has given a serious cause for concern for Biden and the Democrats?

Jill Stein and Cornell West combined are probably a bigger threat since they’ll mostly take him from. RFK seems to be relatively even.

[Hardkill]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

Jill Stein and Cornell West combined are probably a bigger threat since they’ll mostly take him from. RFK seems to be relatively even.

Yeah, they are problematic too, particularly Jill Stein, who actually not only spoiled the 2016 election but also was funded by right-wing megadonors who supported Trump in 2016.

RFK jr. has also been funded by radical right-wing megadonors, including Tim Mellon and other billionaire Trump supporters, who want to help spoil the 2024 election.

Edited April 12 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Raze said:

Then why is RFK courting the right with his anti-Ukraine and Covid opinions, which he is most known for? At this point he takes more votes from trump than Biden.

He is courting the right because his people are brainwashed anti-establishment anti-vaxxers.

There is a superficial similarity between the anti-vax left and right. They both hate the establishment. So in their minds Biden is the greatest evil because he represents the establishment. But in this kind of simple-minded anti-mainstreamism, something foolish could happen, like reelecting Trump.

Anti-vaxers, for the most part, are not very intelligent people. Their political sense is bad. So they make grave mistakes like helping Trump win.

This is not the first time that some lunatic got up on stage and ranted on behalf of RFK Jr. He attracts such people. Which is why he's dangerous. Anyone with lunatic non-mainstream ideas will be drawn towards RFK Jr, thinking that they are being intelligent when they are actually being retarded. I will take Biden over such lunatics. These people don't have a serious understanding of politics nor reality.

Edited April 12 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He is courting the right because his people are brainwashed anti-establishment anti-vaxxers.

There is a superficial similarity between the anti-vax left and right. They both hate the establishment. So in their minds Biden is the greatest evil because he represents the establishment. But in this kind of simple-minded anti-mainstreamism, something foolish could happen, like reelecting Trump.

Anti-vaxers, for the most part, are not very intelligent people. Their political sense is bad. So they make grave mistakes like helping Trump win.

Cenk and Ana have also said that part of why this is happening with RFK Jr. is because the Democratic establishment and Biden did not allow a fair kind of democratic process for the 2024 Democratic primaries that would have allowed any other potential Democratic candidate who wished to challenge and debate Biden on many pressing issues pertaining to our country.

 

 

Edited April 12 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Cenk and Ana have also said that part of why this is happening with RFK Jr. is because the Democratic establishment and Biden did not allow a fair kind of democratic process for the 2024 Democratic primaries that would have allowed any other potential Democratic candidate who wished to challenge and debate Biden on many pressing issues pertaining to our country.

For sure the Dem establishment plays dirty. They don't want someone like RFK Jr to co-opt the party in the same way Trump co-opted the Repub party.

Edited April 12 by Leo Gura

[aurum]

32 minutes ago, Raze said:

Then why is RFK courting the right with his anti-Ukraine and Covid opinions, which he is most known for? At this point he takes more votes from trump than Biden.

He is not courting the right per say. There are plenty of lefties who love his anti-vaxx takes. Charles Eisenstein and people like him are a perfect example.

Mostly RFK is just anti-establishment, anti-corporatist. You can find people on the left and right who support such positions.

Edited April 12 by aurum

[Hardkill]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For sure the Dem establishment plays dirty. They don't want someone like RFK Jr to co-opt the party in the same way Trump co-opted the Repub party.

But the Dem establishment hasn't really done anything out of the ordinary in terms of cheating or corruption. You even said before that it's all just part of the business as usual kind of politics that has gone on for over two centuries in the US. More over there's no path to RFK jr. winning the presidency and there never was for him.

He has a never been a serious, pragmatic candidate with a wide enough appeal. He's way too fringe in his stances and rhetoric. Not to mention that the way he comes off in term of his personality is too strange for most Americans.

Edited April 12 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

More over there's no path to RFK jr. winning the presidency and there never was.

Obviously. But there IS a path for him spoiling it for Biden.

That's what the lunatic lady in the video outlined. Watch the video again.

That's why I highlighted this situation.

Edited April 12 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously. But there IS a path for him spoiling it for Biden.

That's what the lunatic lady in the video outlined. Watch the video again.

That's why I highlighted this situation.

No, I've known about that for a while now. I already saw the video of that radical right-wing freak lady and what she said. 

The Democratic party has now been trying as hard as they can to take down RFK Jr, Jill Stein, and Cornel West like they already did successfully with that ridiculous No Labels third party presidential bid.

Edited April 12 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

The Democratic party has now been trying as hard as they can to take down RFK Jr, Jill Stein, and Cornel West

Of course. Because those campaigns could end up reelecting Trump.

Leftists are so wrapped up in idealism and virtue signaling that they could end up advancing the far right agenda.

If Trump wins, how many Supreme Court judges will he elect this time around? And how much of Christian fundamentalist lunatics will they be?

The Progressive left is so smart they're stupid.

Edited April 12 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course. Because those campaigns could end up reelecting Trump.

Leftists are so wrapped up in idealism and virtue signaling that they could end up advancing the far right agenda.

If Trump wins, how many Supreme Court judges will he elect this time around? And how much of Christian fundamentalist lunatics will they be?

The Progressive left is so smart they're stupid.

Oh God! It will be the end of our democracy and freedoms if Trump and MAGA win the 2024 elections.

I also really can't stand progressives like Cenk, Ana, Krystal, and Kyle who say stupid fucking shit like "establishment Dems always bungle it up" or "If the Democrats lose then of course they are going to blame the progressives and the Left for it, instead taking personal responsibility for losing...." or "Democratic leadership has telling every Democrat to shut up and vote for Biden and the Democratic establishment!" 

I absolutely cannot Jill Stein and Cornel West and other like them who also say fucking dumb shit like "The Democrats have abandoned their base. They have no one to blame but themselves for these so called spoiled elections" or "No one owes the Democrats anything when they've always let the party down"

Or RFK jr. saying that he can make an argument on how Biden is an even bigger threat to democracy than Trump because of his "censorship policies."

What's even more crazy is how TYT and Secular Talk have been saying how Bernie, AOC, and every other progressive in Congress have all been co-opted by the Democratic establishment and sold their constituents out. There's something really wrong with Cenk and Ana. They've have really gone off the wall. Kyle and Krystal are also being irresponsible to some extent with what they've been saying to their viewers.

All of these 3 party candidates are unbelievably delusional and incredibly selfish. They are mentally ill.

Edited April 12 by Hardkill

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

 

I also really can't stand progressives like Cenk, Ana, Krystal, and Kyle who say stupid fucking shit like "establishment Dems always bungle it up" or "If the Democrats lose then of course they are going to blame the progressives and the Left for it, instead taking personal responsibility for losing...." or "Democratic leadership has telling every Democrat to shut up and vote for Biden and the Democratic establishment!" I

They are completely correct. The establishment pushed for Hillary and she failed to beat Trump. Now the establishment is forcing Biden through even though he’s a weak candidate and offering progressives or even independents nothing. The democrats have only themselves to blame for the constant losses, they are not entitled to votes.

Edited April 13 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Raze said:

democrats have only themselves to blame for the constant losses

Now apply that logic to Progressives losses.

As if a Progressive is gonna magically beat Republicans.

It's easy to blame others for losing when your team is not even popular enough to win a primary so you never have to account for general election losses.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

They are mentally ill.

That's too far.

They have some bad anti-establishment takes, yes.

It's very easy to lose balance in politics. 

[Raze]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Now apply that logic to Progressives losses.

As if a Progressive is gonna magically beat Republicans.

It's easy to blame others for losing when your team is not even popular enough to win a primary so you never have to account for general election losses.

They essentially cancelled the primary this time, not really progressives fault in this case.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Raze said:

They essentially cancelled the primary this time, not really progressives fault in this case.

Because there was no serious challenger.

If a primary were held all that would happen is Biden would win but now there would video footage of progressives attacking Biden which Trump would use against Biden in the general to drive a wedge between liberals and leftists.

The only progressive popular enough to bear Biden is Bernie, but even he can't win a primary and he didn't even try to run.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura