What is the reason why the ego builds the barriers again after Awakening experience?

[Water by the River]

Maybe there are different perspectives on how stable Realization is initially (after the shift), because each being/path approaches it a bit differently? Even in Zen there is the slower approach via just sitting and ripening (and then when the apple drops from the tree its more stable, but happens later) or via Koan-concentration-meditation (happens earlier, but less stable afterwards). 

Probably a more or less fast&spontaneous Enlightenment (happening because of previous lifes of practice/ripening/suffering/Karma/genetics/whatever) is different in expression/stabilizing/ripening then after decades of practice?

And probably each more or less spontaneous (or not spontaneous/years and decades of practice) realization also has a different flavour, with a variety as broad there are different characters and humans/beings/aliens?

The deep structures stay the same (Nondual Infinite Being is realized as more truthful (and fundamental/eternal) beyond any doubt than an imagined separate being with its center/duality/lenses of perceptions), the surface structures (the path up the mountain, and returning to the valley with open hands, and/or stabilizing its expression) vary with each being. That is at least my best take.

Enjoy the weekend.

Water by the River

[Inliytened1]

@Water by the River  you are making things much more complicated.  The short answer is you can only awaken once.  Fool me once but twice - now that would be something...in fact, it would be redundant.   

Edited April 13 by Inliytened1

[Water by the River]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Water by the River  you are making things much more complicated.  The short answer is you can only awaken once.  Fool me once but twice - now that would be something...in fact, it would be redundant.   

Yes

 

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

So what you are saying is that the thought about oneself is the one that builds the 'barrier' again?

Or you are even saying the 'barrier' is also a thought. 

Ego can only ever be thought.

All "I" statements are thought.

All "I" statements are limitations because they are divisions and separations. All separation is limitation.

You are being aware of thoughts of limitation, like "I am this or that."

You, as unbounded infinite awareness, are being aware of the thoughts, but not being in the thoughts. Awareness can't be limited by what it is aware of, because it can't be inside of what it is aware of. You can't read a story while being in the story.

Trying to get rid of barriers is like trying to get rid of unicorns. You can't get rid of what is inside of imagination because only something which exists inside of imagination could do that. You are not someone who hunts unicorns. You are not someone who hunts down barriers. You can only realize that you aren't inside of imagination in the first place.

Edited April 13 by Osaid

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

Ego can only ever be thought.

All "I" statements are thought.

All "I" statements are limitations because they are divisions and separations. All separation is limitation.

You are being aware of thoughts of limitation, like "I am this or that."

You, as unbounded infinite awareness, are being aware of the thoughts, but not being in the thoughts. Awareness can't be limited by what it is aware of, because it can't be inside of what it is aware of. You can't read a story while being in the story.

You can only realize that you aren't inside of imagination in the first place.

@Osaid I think I get it. Thanks for explanation.

[Javfly33]

'We' are in A Dream that came from Nothing and will go back to Nothing.

I am Nothing. You are Nothing. Form is Nothing. Real Self or 'I' is boundless Nothing.

Thought creates world, death, life, universe, time, others, and you. Surrender all thoughts and stay as Blissful Nothing. That is the End until so call dream with form ends.

Also in regards to solipsism, here´s a phrase Ralston said in one of Leo´s interviews:

"Having grasped who I am, you would assume I´d know what others really are. But ignorance works in mysterious ways. (Laughs)"

So basically the question of others do not make sense because thought creates that question. Boundless Nothing is the only Real Self. 

[Osaid]

17 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

'We' are in A Dream that came from Nothing and will go back to Nothing.

I am Nothing. You are Nothing. Form is Nothing. Real Self or 'I' is boundless Nothing.

Thought creates world, death, life, universe, time, others, and you. Surrender all thoughts and stay as Blissful Nothing. That is the End until so call dream with form ends.

Also in regards to solipsism, here´s a phrase Ralston said in one of Leo´s interviews:

"Having grasped who I am, you would assume I´d know what others really are. But ignorance works in mysterious ways. (Laughs)"

So basically the question of others do not make sense because thought creates that question. Boundless Nothing is the only Real Self. 

That's pretty damn accurate as a summation.

The "surrender" is really just a clear perception that that you cannot be inside the content of thought. It is a clear recognition of the nature of experience and how it contains itself. Once you see it you can't unsee it, and that is so called "enlightenment." 

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

The deep structures stay the same (Nondual Infinite Being is realized as more truthful (and fundamental/eternal) beyond any doubt than an imagined separate being with its center/duality/lenses of perceptions), the surface structures (the path up the mountain, and returning to the valley with open hands, and/or stabilizing its expression) vary with each being. That is at least my best take.

Mmm that sounds good. 

Happy weekend too.

 

5 minutes ago, Osaid said:

That's pretty damn accurate as a summation.

The "surrender" is really just a clear perception that that you cannot be inside the content of thought. It is a clear recognition of the nature of experience and how it contains itself. Once you see it you can't unsee it, and that is so called "enlightenment." 

Powerful words. namaste.

 

[Inception]

4 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Great explanation 

Thanks! I appreciate you appreciating my post.

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

That makes sense and matches what I intuit. 

Great minds think alike 

[UnbornTao]

And explanations are just that.

[Soul Flight]

The strange thing is who am I? If I am god and I have an awakening, where is the ego located? The ego seems like a demon or demiurge from Gnosticism. It feels like animals operate from ego. Maybe as god I falsely associate with my body and thus an ego. But after an awakening, I guess I am still trapped in my head and the thoughts of the ego get mingled with my own and I get caught up in the ego again.

It seems like ego is a software program to ensure survival for things like food, warmth, shelter, sex, etc. Is this software program part of my god self? How does it trick me a second time? I guess the ego thoughts float by my awareness and I get sucked into the ego game.

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Water by the River  you are making things much more complicated.  The short answer is you can only awaken once.  Fool me once but twice - now that would be something...in fact, it would be redundant.   

Awakening and dreaming means nothing. You always are, it doesn't matter what you think about it. The difference is in existing in a limited or unlimited way. Having a punctual awakening is just an experience, and what you think about it afterwards are just thoughts.

What I am is what exists and the breadth of it, in this moment, is total, complete. There is nothing to think or know about it, it is something that is. From this fact the idea of continuity and evolutionary cycles emerges, but it is only an idea. Reality is the bottomless well of existence that is happening at this exact moment, and the impulse to more depth, more beauty, a more complex dance full of nuances is also real, it is where the cosmos moves, then, let's move, it's unavoidable 

[ExplorerMystic]

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Awakening and dreaming means nothing. You always are, it doesn't matter what you think about it. The difference is in existing in a limited or unlimited way. Having a punctual awakening is just an experience, and what you think about it afterwards are just thoughts.

What I am is what exists and the breadth of it, in this moment, is total, complete. There is nothing to think or know about it, it is something that is. From this fact the idea of continuity and evolutionary cycles emerges, but it is only an idea. Reality is the bottomless well of existence that is happening at this exact moment, and the impulse to more depth, more beauty, a more complex dance full of nuances is also real, it is where the cosmos moves, then, let's move, it's unavoidable 

Nope.   Awakening and enlightenment is the ultimate miracle.  It is the breaking free of the dream.  It is becoming God.  After, it is not a memory. Something like that can't be remembered.  You just know.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, ExplorerMystic said:

Nowhere and no how. 

You cannot trace back the owner to a set of atoms, or quarks

Look.  Look with your microscope.   Try to find the substance of reality via science.  You may just zoom in forever. 

[Razard86]

16 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is foolish because you are not imagining that you are Incarnating into a unicorn.  There are various levels and degrees to imagination.  Also you have to consider that imagination is infinite- allowing you to imagine or incarnate into a finite being.  You didn't imagine you incarnated into a unicorn - furthermore the unicorn would be the physical form it wouldn't be the ego.  The ego would be the sense of self as the unicorn.  

So you are comparing the physical form of a unicorn to a sense of self.  Nice try but get with the big boys if you want to talk spirituality. 

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Water by the River  you are making things much more complicated.  The short answer is you can only awaken once.  Fool me once but twice - now that would be something...in fact, it would be redundant.   

I include the body as the ego, the sense of self can only be constructed with memory, feeling the sensations of a body, a desire to feed and take care of body, desire to procreate, an environment that communicates that you are the body.

It can include internal dialogue as well but I recently discovered some people have never had internal dialogue in their life. 

The totality of all that reinforces a sense of self, that is ego.

Edited April 13 by Razard86

[Razard86]

36 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Nowhere and no how. 

You cannot trace back the owner to a set of atoms, or quarks

Look.  Look with your microscope.   Try to find the substance of reality via science.  You may just zoom in forever. 

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Water by the River  you are making things much more complicated.  The short answer is you can only awaken once.  Fool me once but twice - now that would be something...in fact, it would be redundant.   

A cool strange loop would be to zoom in so far you are looking down on yourself looking through the microscope.

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I include the body as the ego, m

Yes but in a non-dual state you will still be in a body although it will be like a fading glimpse.  But there is still the visual field left.  If you don't have any perceptual fields remaining you are out of the body.  But that is Masamadhi and there is no returning from that.

[Razard86]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes but in a non-dual state you will still be in a body although it will be like a fading glimpse.  But there is still the visual field left.  If you don't have any perceptual fields remaining you are out of the body.  But that is Masamadhi and there is no returning from that.

You are talking about the black expansive void I take it. I've been there and I didn't feel I was a body. I was floating in this empty blackness and then whatever thoughts I had would materialize as form.

That was my experience. First electricity went through my fingers, then every cell in my body communicated that this was the end and I was going to die.

Then I entered that void and the question was communicated what am I?

I thought I would never return to the human dream and when I answered Infinity. Reality pixelated over that void my human life as if it were a virtual video game.

I was like so that's why we use pixels on cameras and t.v.

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You are talking about the black expansive void I take it. I've been there and I didn't feel I was a body. I was floating in this empty blackness and then whatever thoughts I had would materialize as form.

That was my experience. First electricity went through my fingers, then every cell in my body communicated that this was the end and I was going to die.

Then I entered that void and the question was communicated what am I?

I thought I would never return to the human dream and when I answered Infinity. Reality pixelated over that void my human life as if it were a virtual video game.

I was like so that's why we use pixels on cameras and t.v.

Awesome.   Yes...for me the visual field persisted but I was in Divine God Consciousness.   It didn't matter.