What is the reason why the ego builds the barriers again after Awakening experience?

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Quote from the edited version:

Meaning, there is no higher level, because higher level is in contrast to ego/body, which itself is imagination and thought. The entire thing is ego/imagination.

The you can die but still remain in physical form.  This doesn't take away that you died and became God - it just means that you retained physical form.   With this retention comes the return of the ego. Of you, if you will.  At this point, terrified of death because in death it loses all existence or meaning- which is ultimately the same thing. So now - it will fight agains its dismissal with everything in its power.

Edited April 12 by Inliytened1

[Osaid]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The you can die but still remain in physical form.  This doesn't take away that you died and became God - it just means that you retained physical form.   With this retention comes the return of the ego. Of you, if you will.  At this point, terrified of death because in death it loses all existence or meaning- which is ultimately the same thing. So now - it will fight agains its dismissal with everything in its power.

Ego can't do any of that because unicorns can't do any of that.

The ego is any story or statement you make of it. You can't read a story while being in the story. You are being aware of things, not being in what you are aware of.

The idea that the ego can return is itself ego. There it is, right there, in the idea: "the ego will return."

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Ego can't do any of that because unicorns can't do any of that.

The ego is any story or statement you make of it. You can't read a story while being in the story. You are being aware of things, not being in what you are aware of.

The idea that the ego can return is itself ego. There it is, right there, in the idea: "the ego will return."

This is foolish because you are not imagining that you are Incarnating into a unicorn.  There are various levels and degrees to imagination.  Also you have to consider that imagination is infinite- allowing you to imagine or incarnate into a finite being.  You didn't imagine you incarnated into a unicorn - furthermore the unicorn would be the physical form it wouldn't be the ego.  The ego would be the sense of self as the unicorn.  

So you are comparing the physical form of a unicorn to a sense of self.  Nice try but get with the big boys if you want to talk spirituality. 

Edited April 12 by Inliytened1

[Cosmic-Resplendence]

I was just watching a video talking about this, and why some fall back asleep after awakening. Daniel Schmidt loosely talks about this during the second half of the presentation, after about 21:45 minutes in and he talks about “How does one Awaken” and going forward from there. Something about purifying the conditioned patterns of the self, making the self less dense so to speak. He says the first matter is to wake up to who you truly are, but if the self isn’t purified so to speak one may easily fall back asleep, pulled back to sleep by the whirlpool of the mind. The purification isn’t necessary to awaken, however, purifying the self IS necessary to stay awakened. Very interesting what he has to say here, great video infact. I’d suggest watching the whole video though to put everything he says into proper perspective. 
 

 

Edited April 12 by Cosmic-Resplendence

[Inliytened1]

41 minutes ago, Cosmic-Resplendence said:

I was just watching a video talking a bout this. Daniel Schmidt loosely talks about this during the second half of the presentation, after about 21:45 minutes in and he talks about “How does one Awaken” and going forward from there. Something about purifying the conditioned patterns of the self, making the self less dense so to speak. He says the first matter is to wake up to who you truly are, but if the self isn’t purified so to speak one may easily fall back asleep, pulled back to sleep by the whirlpool of the mind. The purification isn’t necessary to awaken, however, purifying the self IS necessary ti stay awakened. Very interesting what he has to say here, great video infact. I’d suggest watching the whole video though to put everything he says into proper perspective. 
 

 

This is very key but it's not so much the purification that keeps the ego returning after enlightenment.   It's the attachment.   It's God not ready to relinquish the dream.  There's more to be done.  Perhaps that's purification.  Perhaps it's just being more of an asshole   But  If it's strong enough one will come back.  Purification- is actually ego.  Because God has no distinction between selfishness and non-selfishessness - or good vs evil.  This is because it's love for itself must be absolutely total.

Edited April 13 by Inliytened1

[Ishanga]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

1. Is because what has been seen has to be seen more times? 
2. Is because what has been seen would be 'too good' or 'too crazy' to be real?
3. Is because mind-body fundamentally is not raised to be able to embody the truth, so it has to get used to it 'slowly' until it finally opens itself up?

I am curious about the mechanism of the mind/ego to protect itself and maintain is paradigm, even after being 'crushed' dozens if not hundreds of times. 

Probably the fact is if you are 30 years old and you started having awakenings at 25, you have there 25 years of old conditioning which has to be dissolved, and is not just a few trips or meditation experiences, the Non Dual must become the True Reality. There Is no other way I think. 

 

Karma is deep, its held in all the layers that make you Human, Body, Mind, Emotions and Energy, plus in the atomic level, elemental level, and so forth, so just because You have an "Awakening" doesn't mean its a  permanent state of realization, it surely helps things along in life, better to have one than not, but we have this thing called Sadhana, Spiritual Work, its needed, very few only have one awakening and it leads to enlightenment, if that happens then it means in past lives you were very highly developed Spiritually already and it carried over in this lifetime!

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Ishanga said:

Karma is deep, its held in all the layers that make you Human, Body, Mind, Emotions and Energy, plus in the atomic level, elemental level, and so forth, so just because You have an "Awakening" doesn't mean its a  permanent state of realization, it surely helps things along in life, better to have one than not, but we have this thing called Sadhana, Spiritual Work, its needed, very few only have one awakening and it leads to enlightenment, if that happens then it means in past lives you were very highly developed Spiritually already and it carried over in this lifetime!

Karma only exists within the dream.   In a new dream- the slate is wiped clean.   All is forgiven. 

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Karma only exists within the dream.   In a new dream- the slate is wiped clean.   All is forgiven. 

Without Karma there is no physical/material existence, no Universe, no Galaxies, No Planets and No Us in Human Body/Mind complex form...Yes Karma is past residual acts coming back to haunt us, allot of it is mental, but it is stored deeper but most of it is still physical in nature, even the most subtle forms of energy are still physicality in nature, so since we are not the physical, it is not our essence one may call it a dream, but for a dream to be possible mental and subtle forms and energy have to exist, so no us no dream at all, no individuality, no possibility of any sort of expression or dream, or maya or anything, so it is good we have this here, this sort of existence otherwise its no thing ness, no potential or possibility being expresssed, thats sad!

When one says its all a dream, there has to be someone or something dreaming it!!! Because for sure Your dream is not my dream lol!!!

Edited April 12 by Ishanga

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Without Karma there is no physical/material existence, no Universe, no Galaxies, No Planets and No Us in Human Body/Mind complex form...Yes Karma is past residual acts coming back to haunt us, allot of it is mental, but it is stored deeper but most of it is still physical in nature, even the most subtle forms of energy are still physicality in nature, so since we are not the physical, it is not our essence one may call it a dream, but for a dream to be possible mental and subtle forms and energy have to exist, so no us no dream at all, no individuality, no possibility of any sort of expression or dream, or maya or anything, so it is good we have this here, this sort of existence otherwise its no thing ness, no potential or possibility being expresssed, thats sad!

When one says its all a dream, there has to be someone or something dreaming it!!! Because for sure Your dream is not my dream lol!!!

The question is whether or not karma is carried from a past life into the next.  But this carries a lot of assumptions. It first assumes Reincarnation.  Reincarnation does exist.  But does it exist in the same reality.   If God dreams it is a wolf in this reality does that mean it would be a different creature in this same reality?  When you are in a night dream there are many rules and things that you follow.  You can go through so many trials and tribulations.   But when you wake up from the dream all of it is gone.  Vanished.  Like dust in the wind.

Edited April 12 by Inliytened1

[Osaid]

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There are various levels and degrees to imagination.

All of which would have to be imaginary. Like imagining blue and yellow unicorns. 

40 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Also you have to consider that imagination is infinite- allowing you to imagine or incarnate into a finite being.

Finite is thought.

You are aware of the thought of being finite, like "I have incarnated into a body/unicorn."

You are being the thought, not being in the thought.

You can't be inside of what you are aware of.

You can't read a story while being in the story.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Osaid said:

All of which would have to be imaginary. Like imagining blue and yellow unicorns. 

Finite is thought.

You are aware of the thought of being finite, like "I have incarnated into a body/unicorn."

You are being the thought, not being in the thought.

You can't be inside of what you are aware of.

You can't read a story while being in the story.

Absolutely you can.  All it takes is imagination. 

[abrakamowse]

Because the ego doesn't want to die, survival mechanism.

[Leo Gura]

It's a function of your state.

State dictates everything the mind does. You can't think or will your way outside your state.

If your state drops then you will lose whatever you gained.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a function of your state.

State dictates everything the mind does. You can't think or will your way outside your state.

If your state drops then you will lose whatever you gained.

Let's exclude psychedelics here. It seems this question is geared more towards natural awakening.  Psychedelics simply overwhelm the ego so it has no say.  You are coming at the question from a place of psychedelics- in which such states can be reached regardless of whether the ego has died before.  With natural awakening the ego will not let it happen twice.  But even then? No, you don't lose what you gained.  Otherwise psychedelics would be pointless and awakening would be pointless.

Edited April 13 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

It is a matter of energy configuration. From childhood you configure a pattern based on fear and the attachment that encloses you. Fear and attachment are absolutely serious, inescapable, much stronger than you can handle.

At a certain point you live in a limited structure that can be tolerable or horrible. If it's horrible enough you make the decision, conscious or unconscious, to break it. So, at some point it breaks, but it immediately comes back, since you can't handle it, it's stronger than you. Little by little, with obsessive determination, focused like a laser, you dissolve it, each time you become freer until one day you are truly free, you do not fear, you are the master. You are reality, the living cosmos, and you flow in complete freedom.

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is a matter of energy configuration. From childhood you configure a pattern based on fear and the attachment that encloses you. Fear and attachment are absolutely serious, inescapable, much stronger than you can handle.

At a certain point you live in a limited structure that can be tolerable or horrible. If it's horrible enough you make the decision, conscious or unconscious, to break it. So, at some point it breaks, but it immediately comes back, since you can't handle it, it's stronger than you. Little by little, with obsessive determination, focused like a laser, you dissolve it, each time you become freer until one day you are truly free, you do not fear, you are the master. You are reality, the living cosmos, and you flow in complete freedom.

The question was simple.   Why does the ego buld barriers stronger than it had before after awakening. 

You guys just want to beat around the bush.

It's simply because dying ain't fun.

[Javfly33]

59 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let's exclude psychedelics here. It seems this question is geared more towards natural awakening.  Psychedelics simply overwhelm the ego so it has no say.  You are coming at the question from a place of psychedelics- in which such states can be reached regardless of whether the ego has died before.  With natural awakening the ego will not let it happen twice.  But even then? No, you don't lose what you gained.  Otherwise psychedelics would be pointless and awakening would be pointless.

@Inliytened1 Yeap. Although what Leo says can not only apply to psychedelics also meditation.

I probably did not explain myself correctly in the OP. Im not talking about states or experiences.

I´m talking that there is only One Truth. When is seeing, is seeing. Now... for some strange reason, duality comes back. My question was why you guys think that happens.

[Javfly33]

31 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You guys just want to beat around the bush.

YOU GET IT!!! That´s exactly what is happening here. 

31 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

 

It's simply because dying ain't fun.

But is really fun tho, is Love. 

Edited April 13 by Javfly33

[Holymoly]

9 hours ago, Inception said:

From my personal experience, I'd guess it's mainly point number 2. I've lived most of my life in hate, surrounded by hate, seeing hate, breathing hate, learning hate, being hated and hating. The world doesn't care about me i tought. I was loveless and felt unlovable. It didn't seem like there was space for love in such a cold world... and then all of a sudden you find out it's all Love, it's best surprise you could ever get! 

But it's just that it seems to good to be true. I can't handle too much love and goodness at once. I need it slowly like a rescue dog. It's not just psychological, you're physically rewiring your "brain" in order to be able to handle (more) love. In other words you're shedding the old conditioning like you said.

Slowly Love will destroy all barriers, until there's nothing left.

Great explanation 

[Javfly33]

46 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is a matter of energy configuration. From childhood you configure a pattern based on fear and the attachment that encloses you. Fear and attachment are absolutely serious, inescapable, much stronger than you can handle.

At a certain point you live in a limited structure that can be tolerable or horrible. If it's horrible enough you make the decision, conscious or unconscious, to break it. So, at some point it breaks, but it immediately comes back, since you can't handle it, it's stronger than you. Little by little, with obsessive determination, focused like a laser, you dissolve it, each time you become freer until one day you are truly free, you do not fear, you are the master. You are reality, the living cosmos, and you flow in complete freedom.

Nice, I agree, the work is arduous, we must be obsessive laser focused to walk straight into the freedom.

4 hours ago, abrakamowse said:

Because the ego doesn't want to die, survival mechanism.

true

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a function of your state.

State dictates everything the mind does. You can't think or will your way outside your state.

If your state drops then you will lose whatever you gained.

If you know clear the living room is made out of boundless consciousness Love, what state is there to lose?

When your experience is boundless, is crystal clear as the water, why would we concerned with states? 

But I get your point, in other words what im seeing is constantly the state of awakening must be maintained in order to not lose the awakening.

But that wouldn´t be difficult if you get to a point where you see crystal clear that physical reality is as false as 3$ dollar bill. 😎

8 hours ago, Osaid said:

There is just the thought. The thought is equivalent to conditioning.

 

So what you are saying is that the thought about oneself is the one that builds the 'barrier' again?

Or you are even saying the 'barrier' is also a thought. 

9 hours ago, Inception said:

From my personal experience, I'd guess it's mainly point number 2. I've lived most of my life in hate, surrounded by hate, seeing hate, breathing hate, learning hate, being hated and hating. The world doesn't care about me i tought. I was loveless and felt unlovable. It didn't seem like there was space for love in such a cold world... and then all of a sudden you find out it's all Love, it's best surprise you could ever get! 

But it's just that it seems to good to be true. I can't handle too much love and goodness at once. I need it slowly like a rescue dog. It's not just psychological, you're physically rewiring your "brain" in order to be able to handle (more) love. In other words you're shedding the old conditioning like you said.

Slowly Love will destroy all barriers, until there's nothing left.

That makes sense and matches what I intuit. 

10 hours ago, Thought Art said:

 

You will likely never fully destroy the ego mind. It’s sort of like a hand or foot. I can change, and operate at higher and more healthier, holier, and more god like ways as it develops and grows through a mixture of different types of experiences.

 

With Ego I mean: The thought that make us believe we are inside in a so called physical reality 

Instead of the truth, which is an hologram of boundless love. 

You can still drive, think, work and operate machinery....being conscious you are doing it in an hologram of boundless Infinite Love   Why not?  

10 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

To make the experience relevant.

Fuck that. Love is even more profound and relevant. That can not be a proper argument

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

it will fight against the dissolution of itself as it must because it is constructed to do that very thing. 

In this thing we call life some changes take time to integrate and this is just one of the many examples of it. It's fun to ponder about it though.

@Razard86 That makes sense, thanks for sharing.