Israeli Society - 75% for same sex marriage or LGBTQ civil union, top Vegan country

[Nivsch]

@Raze All the examples there (minus the weapon supplies to problematic regimes) are highly fluid and hypocritical when don't take Israeli survival perspective into account, what is the core of the issue here.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Inliytened1]

29 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Yes sadly at least in the west bank this is surely the case.

I wanted to include the current war in Gaza too minus the killed parameter that wasn't intentional unlike hamas there the key difference between the sides remains, but other parameters yes.

Don't say yes so much and agree with everything he says.  You're starting to sound like AI.  

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The one with more muscles and more development has a higher responsibility to use restraint.

That's the principle.

Is Israel morally superior to Hamas or not? If it is, then act it. The problem is that Israel wants to claim moral superiority and victim status in this conflict but not do the work to be morally superior.

War is war.  Where is the morality in war?  

[Nivsch]

@Inliytened1 But our right wing policy is dissapointing and problematic.

I didn't say we are like hamas because of course this isn't at all the case. There are developmental and moral huge differences.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No, that's not what is happening here.

We don't need to assume. It's clear as day by IDF actions that they are abusing their power.

Exactly how?  By nullifying a threat?  You don't see them advancing on other countries.  You only see them wiping out a direct threat.  Again - any nation in today's society would do exactly that.   So, it's interesting that you want to condemn Israel but yet if you do that you should also condemn the entire current society as it is today.  Israel is merely trying to survive in a world where there is much greed for power and land.  But to you its not their land.  So now they are over stepping. 

[Nivsch]

@Inliytened1 But to arrest even one child in west bank is wrong, to destroy palestinians homes is also wrong. You can always say "but we are right in this and that" but we have to be smart too and not to fuel hate towards us.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Inliytened1 But to arrest even one child in west bank is wrong, to destroy palestinians homes is also wrong. You can always say "but we are right in this and that" but we have to be smart too and not to fuel hate towards us.

There are wrongs on both sides - don't agree with them too much it makes you sound like AI

 

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

War is war.  Where is the morality in war?  

Okay then. So Oct 7th was just war, so don't cry to us about beheaded babies.

[Nivsch]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Terrorism is done by the powerless against the powerful

I think the reasons hamas or Hezbollah attack Israel are much more than that, and are mainly their stage and their meaning of life derived from that, along with their theological appealing. It hard for the western world to see that those attacks are actually what give them meaning and psychological fullness.

But the west think that they are like us just want to live in an organized life similar to us what I think isn't true, and it might be part of the reason the peace negotiations keep failing due to those forces that only increase the terror in such times for example after Oslo agreement and 2nd intifada after 90's agreements.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Raze]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Okay then. So Oct 7th was just war, so don't cry to us about beheaded babies.

The beheaded babies thing was a myth 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel#Unsubstantiated_reports_of_beheaded_children

[Nivsch]

@Raze Don't start with that again. Wikipedia is a fighting zone not an imprinted objective book.

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

so don't cry to us about beheaded babies.

I think it has been proven as a lie, at least the 40 ones.

Some BBC reported came up with it or something and it became viral but it was never proved on record.

Edited April 13 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The IDF does not do terrorism. But it certainly does a lot of war crimes.

Point is that Israel gets a lot more leefway for doing similar devilry to Hamas.

No country wants to associate themselves with Hamas (except Iran) meanwhile tons of stage green countries are allies of Israel.

This is what I meant.

If Israel wants to basically mass murder civilians like Hamas did then it should get the same treatment as Hamas.

Which would be "We do not want to be associated with you unless you change your ways".

Edited April 13 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

There are wrongs on both sides - don't agree with them too much it makes you sound like AI

If you want the legitimacy to stand for your (Israel) rights or for the other side's wrongs, you have to be able to see also your side's wrongs where it is difficult, because this is the only way to gain your moral capabilities and stance when you want after that to stand for what you think is important.

Edited April 14 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Karmadhi

On 2024-04-14 at 0:11 AM, Karmadhi said:

Point is that Israel gets a lot more leefway for doing similar devilry to Hamas.

No country wants to associate themselves with Hamas (except Iran) meanwhile tons of stage green countries are allies of Israel.

This is what I meant.

If Israel wants to basically mass murder civilians like Hamas did then it should get the same treatment as Hamas.

Which would be "We do not want to be associated with you unless you change your ways".

   Exactly, they have to get denounced and either get the ceasefire or face economic sanctions, or reduction in weapons supply, tariffs of products from Israel to other countries, whatever to send a strong signal that wartime in intolerable. 

[Nivsch]

6 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Karmadhi

   Exactly, they have to get denounced and either get the ceasefire or face economic sanctions, or reduction in weapons supply, tariffs of products from Israel to other countries, whatever to send a strong signal that wartime in intolerable. 

Eliminating hamas is necessary, but this war is done too hastly by our government and not in a smart way. The last thing Gazans need is that hamas will return control them what will be not less tragic than what already happened to them. They deserve a real change that at least something good will come out of all of this mess.

Edited April 15 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

On 11/04/2024 at 4:52 PM, Nivsch said:

Great. And nice to hear. Me too, but less snakes 😅

My flight got cancelled due to the Iran tensions but I'll go a little later as soon as possible. 

[Karmadhi]

@Vrubel  I sent a clip of Israelis celebrating the murder of a Palestinian child before this war yet you ignore it.

Seems you only seem to care when Palestinians celebrate the murder of Israeli civilians.

Self biased at its finest.

 

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

done too hastly

That is a nice way of white washing killing 13.000 childreen (mean age being 5 year old according to a norwegian study) and creating a man mad famine that is affecting 2 million innocent people  

Edited April 15 by Karmadhi

[Vrubel]

40 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Vrubel  I sent a clip of Israelis celebrating the murder of a Palestinian child before this war yet you ignore it.

Seems you only seem to care when Palestinians celebrate the murder of Israeli civilians.

Self biased at its finest.

 

Oke, I am just the B-word and don’t at all have legitimate points and (deep) insights that are reasonable, fair and within my integrity.

It’s so obvious you’re just agenda-pushing. To the extent I can have a reasonable discussion without repeating myself, I can engage you but at some point, this back-and-forth becomes useless and leads to lashouts.

Edited April 15 by Vrubel

[Karmadhi]

@Vrubel I did give lengthy replies to every argument you made with me so i think I respected what you said enough to reply to it.

Meanwhile you skip tons of stuff I write.

You seem very eager to criticize Palestinians harshly for celebrating murder of civilians but do not say anything about Israelis even when confronted with proper proof.

When you told me that Palestinians celebrated I did not ignore it nor deny it. I just said it is not the majority.

 

 

Edited April 15 by Karmadhi