Israeli Society - 75% for same sex marriage or LGBTQ civil union, top Vegan country

[Razard86]

On 4/6/2024 at 0:53 PM, yetineti said:

@Nivsch 

I am sorry for whatever losses or personal experiences you may have with the war.

But it’s not complicated.

Israel has overreacted. They have killed a completely disproportionate amount of people many of which are women and children.

They have freaked out and killed their own people waving white flags.

They have freaked out and killed international aid.

They have freaked out and killed an Iranian commander.

They’re paranoid and have been unjustifiable for quite sometime now; it has become genocide.

The people who recognize that already understand it’s mainly the government. They already understand the great culture, vegan, sexual openness, etc.

No one cares 🥱 

All the other stuff is much more important.

People pushing back on this thread never hated Israel- they’re pushing back because a thread on polls, LGBTQ+, etc. is seemingly semantic, distracting and counter productive in war time.

Especially a war of this nature.

Israel is already getting billions every year from the United States and has been in good relations for decades. We get it; time to acknowledge some faults.

 

 

 

I really don't understand why people still push this narrative that women and children's lives are more important than men.

We need to eradicate the phrase they killed many people, many of them women and children, let's just say they killed people and every human life matters.

[Twentyfirst]

Just now, Razard86 said:

I really don't understand why people still push this narrative that women and children's lives are more important than men.

We need to eradicate the phrase they killed many people, many of them women and children, let's just say they killed people and every human life matters.

WTF DUDE

You literally think a mans life is more important than a WOMANS OR CHILDS!!!

You are messed up. Quit drinking whatever kool aid you are drinking and get real 

[Nivsch]

41 minutes ago, Raze said:

controlled who left and entered

This is unavoidable for security. Not as an excuse but really.

41 minutes ago, Raze said:

controlled their airspace

Same answer.

41 minutes ago, Raze said:

controlled their access to food and water

Well this is a closed area. Do you have another way?

41 minutes ago, Raze said:

let Arabs build properties on Israeli land,

Both sides build properties there by the way and dont wait to the other side permission. The palestinians ones are not less! Just for honesty.

41 minutes ago, Raze said:

bombarded them from the sky

This is the war argument. Not west bank.

41 minutes ago, Raze said:

 arrested them by the hundred without charged everytime they acted up

This is very hurmful and not a smart way to deal with this. You have to think but how the other side probably see as the only way to keep the order there in this plonter Jews are Arabs live one inside the other. But yeah this is a bad ignorant policy that only make things worse.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

@Vrubel @Nivsch By the say, since you say the people in Gaza are messed up for celebrating October 7th.

Look what I encountered

https://www.tiktok.com/@hasanalsadi1/video/7357323563847666977

Seems to me exactly like October 7th celebration.

These orthodox Jews seems just as barbaric as Hamas here  

[Karmadhi]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When a tribe of people are under violent attack, they regress and no longer act like advanced libera

You can use the same argument for Palestine. Israel barbarity regresses them to what we see Hamas do.

How come Hamas is a terrorist organization while the IDF is not even though both seem to be by product of violent attacks.

Seems like double standards to me to be honest.

And if you actually research the conflict a bit, they always been very stage blue when it comes to dealing with Palestine. 

 

Edited April 13 by Karmadhi

[Vibes]

33 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

WTF DUDE

You literally think a mans life is more important than a WOMANS OR CHILDS!!!

You are messed up. Quit drinking whatever kool aid you are drinking and get real 

He said 'equally important'. Which it is, and as import as an ant's life too, but to human selfishness the ant doesn't matter.

Edited April 13 by Vibes

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@Inliytened1 A strong military understandably creates an illusionary highly exaggerated picture of "oppression", while in reality what really there is is a friction, between two societies, in which both Israeli right wing policies, corrupted soldiers (many in this area, not just bad apples) and settler extremists, and Palestinian terror groups do harmful actions to one another that fuel the hate between the sides.

Indeed.   I think that's the whole issue here. One sees a strong, well manufactured military and they immediately assume because it's Israel that its the oppressor.  But look around. Is any strong nation any different? Nay.  They just don't have the immediate conflict on their hands like Israel does.   There are bad apples everywhere but ultimately I don't think Israel's intentions are bad 

Edited April 13 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

@Raze what nation wouldn't control their boundaries.  Who comes in and out.  As far as being arrested without charge - well that's just that.  There isn't a conviction until found guilty. 

Edited April 13 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

WTF DUDE

You literally think a mans life is more important than a WOMANS OR CHILDS!!!

You are messed up. Quit drinking whatever kool aid you are drinking and get real 

I really don't understand why many of you on the forums are so unaware of your projections.

I literally said every life matters. This means I am saying that a man's life is equivalent to a woman and a child.

If you kill all the men all the women and children will die. Men and women are two halfs that make a whole. 

Please stop projecting division and learn how to read to understand and not assume.

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Truths to not overlook in this discussion:

 

• Israel saved millions of lives and secured a future for Jews.
• Israel was established on undefined land. And the Jews have a damn good claim to it as well as stark necessity for their own state, which ultimately constitutes the bottom line. 
• Most early Zionists were secular and socialist idealists who were desperate for peace, that spirit still lives on to a large degree in Israeli society. 
• Israel has no inherent problem with Arabs, just look at Arab Israelis. 
• Israel’s enemies are total savages in their potential for barbarity ( even compared with reasonable Arab governments which routinely make peace.)Israel must defend itself from that, there is no compromising on that. 
• There is a vicious cycle and both sides are responsible for that. 
• Israel deserves criticism (any Israeli will agree) but holding it up to some fairy tale standard and being intensely biased in the demonization of Israel is wrong. Ultimately the people that are engaged in the smear campaign totally dismiss the Israeli POV and practically don't respect their right for survival. 
• Conveniently overlooking the history you don’t like and arbitrarily choosing from what position you want to start to best serve your agenda. (For both sides).
• The whole attitude of just blame-shifting on Israel instead of being constructive and deeply understanding. There are clear limits of how much you can blame on Israel. 
• Hyperbolism is not truth but perversion and is just part of the demonization campaign. To avoid hyperbolism one must be true to (historical) context and similarities.

+1 ❤

Very important points.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

How come Hamas is a terrorist organization while the IDF

The IDF does not do terrorism. But it certainly does a lot of war crimes.

When you have carte blanche to do war crimes, terrorism is unnecessary. Terrorism is done by the powerless against the powerful. The powerful do not need terrorism because they have more effective means.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

WTF DUDE

You literally think a mans life is more important than a WOMANS OR CHILDS!!!

You are messed up. Quit drinking whatever kool aid you are drinking and get real 

He literally said all lives are equal.

[Leo Gura]

43 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

One sees a strong, well manufactured military and they immediately assume because it's Israel that its the oppressor.

No, that's not what is happening here.

We don't need to assume. It's clear as day by IDF actions that they are abusing their power.

[Nivsch]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, that's not what is happening here.

We don't need to assume. It's clear as day by IDF actions that they are abusing their power.

Yes but this is tricky because both sides harm each other, but when one of them have more muscles his actions will be showed as more abusive, and he will be appeared falsely as the bad guy! But this is a psychological deception. 

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

but when one of them have more muscles his actions will be showed as more abusive

The one with more muscles and more development has a higher responsibility to use restraint.

That's the principle.

Is Israel morally superior to Hamas or not? If it is, then act it. The problem is that Israel wants to claim moral superiority and victim status in this conflict but not do the work to be morally superior.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The one with more muscles and more development has a higher responsibility to use restraint.

Yes I agree, but when a soldier found in this tough zone, and his life is also not so safe there, and there is a violent uprising of the other side, he just think how to stop this to not get into chaos.

I am not justifying his very low consciousness policy that from our eyes this is obviously will only make things worse long term (but he doesn't yet have that view probably) but just say a higher thinking is very difficult to do in this hard area.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

when a soldier found in this tough zone, and his life is also not so safe there

The real criticism is not of the soldiers, it's of the top leadership and their selfish nationalist policies.

The soldiers are just the pawns.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The real criticism is not of the soldiers, it's of the top leadership and their selfish nationalist policies.

The soldiers are just the pawns.

Yes once there are many isolated settlements, we are Jews and Arabs inmeshed together and then, to manage this physically seems to me as very challenging and chaotic, and only a signed agreement can solve this. 

[Nivsch]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is that Israel wants to claim moral superiority and victim status in this conflict but not do the work to be morally superior

Yes sadly at least in the west bank this is surely the case.

I wanted to include the current war in Gaza too minus the killed parameter that wasn't intentional unlike hamas there the key difference between the sides remains, but other parameters yes.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The IDF does not do terrorism. But it certainly does a lot of war crimes.

When you have carte blanche to do war crimes, terrorism is unnecessary. Terrorism is done by the powerless against the powerful. The powerful do not need terrorism because they have more effective means.

But there are many examples of them doing and sponsoring terrorism 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantura_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_state-sponsored_terrorism

Edited April 13 by Raze