Israeli Society - 75% for same sex marriage or LGBTQ civil union, top Vegan country

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Maybe you need some.

No thanks.

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You can't blame the state for doing what it's doing.

Sure we can.

Toxic nationalism is wrong regardless of which race does it. Jews don't get a special victim pass to be assholes. That would be racism.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They cannot reach a deep peace because they are squatting on land which does not belong to them.

This is no big deal. These kinds of occupations happen all the time between different countries.  

Pakistan and China have occupied a part of Kashmir. So what? This is not a reason to ethnically cleanse the Muslims in the area and introduce Hindu settlers? 

I know you do not support Israel, but your thinking that actions are somehow an organic response to the things as they are unfolding is pretty concerning. This is really not that different from what Hitler was doing. They have to follow it in the new liberal order.

Hitler could simply attack. Israel needs to poke first and get a response so that they could attack. The Mossad orchestrated all this. 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

This is no big deal.

It's the whole deal. Without that there would be peace. This is a land dispute in the end. Both sides want all the land for themselves. So obviously that cannot go peacefully.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No thanks.

Sure we can.

Toxic nationalism is wrong regardless of which race does it.

When someone's lands and rjgnts have been taken away for so long they become like rabid dogs.  Is it right? No. But it wasn't right to enslave them either.  Now - they have their own nation.   And they are defending it.  Whose land it once was? Well - they are there now.  So it's theirs.  They aren't squatting anywhere so let's just clarify that one.

[Hardkill]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The two are connected.

I see. Okay, I think I understand now. Thanks.

[Bobby_2021]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's the whole deal. Without that there would be peace.

What degree of peace is the question. 

Shooting each other is not peace. That is something I can content with. This happens at the occupied border all the time.

Tension or not having peace does not have to result in genocide. That is the problem.

The thing is Israel wants to have Gaza for itself and ethnically cleanse all the Palestinians. Just admit that. They let Oct 7 happen to get a cover for the cleansing campaign and they miserably failed to meet their objectives.

Edited April 13 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Whose land it once was? Well - they are there now.  So it's theirs.  They aren't squatting anywhere so let's just clarify that one.

Except they keep grabbing more land. So no, it's not ancient history. It continues now.

And it's mighty biased of you to claim that we need to not forget 3000 year old history, yet you want to forget the last 70 years of the most relevant history to this conflict.

Being abused does not grant anyone license to abuse others. You would never accept that in other contexts. But you overlook it here due to attachment and personal identity.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

6 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

The thing is Israel wants to have Gaza for itself and ethnically cleanse all the Palestinians. Just admit that. They let Oct 7 happen to get a cover for the cleansing campaign and they miserably failed to meet their objectives.

Israeli real estate agents have already been selling the land of Gaza to foreign would be settlers. 

We have to look at the intention. Intention is all that matters, since it is pretty evident at the moment.

Israel is powerful to have the means to reach what they want. 

Edited April 13 by Bobby_2021

[Nivsch]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel's situation is different. They cannot reach a deep peace because they are squatting on land which does not belong to them.

This is just not true! And not fair.

Jews an Arabs were here together for centuries before Israel has established.

2. Most palestinians came here as work immigrants for the Ottoman rule just a while before Israel has established.

This land own both.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Being abused does not grant anyone license to abuse others.

Deep.

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Except they keep grabbing more land. So no, it's not ancient history. It continues now.

And in other hand Israel (not Bibi) has tried to come to an agreement that would stop what you mentioned (which is not fair to do as a policy I acknowledge).

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Except they keep grabbing more land. So no, it's not ancient history. It continues now.

And it's mighty biased of you to claim that we need to not forget 3000 year old history, yet you want to forget the last 70 years of the most relevant history to this conflict.

Being abused does not grant anyone license to abuse others. You would never accept that in other contexts because you would see how skewed it is.

In my eyes Israel is simply attempting to expunge its enemies..not grab more land.  Once the threat is tamed it would not go on to conquer other nations.   You again have to consider the history of the Jewish people and the persecution they endured.  Then you might be able to see it from their perspective.  Aggeession was their own only avenue.  To keep up with the current times or be swallowed up yet again.

Edited April 13 by Inliytened1

[Nivsch]

11 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

The thing is Israel wants to have Gaza for itself and ethnically cleanse all the Palestinians.

Another toxic generalization. Only the far right want that.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

And in other hand Israel (not Bibi) has tried to come to an agreement that would stop what you mentioned

In practice I don't see it. They keep going for more land. They are duplicitous, they say pleasantries but always go for more land.

The official policy is: grab land, ask for forgiveness later, once it's too late.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

In my eyes Israel is simply attempting to expunge its enemies..not grab more land.  Once the threat is tamed it would not go on to conquer other nations.   You again have to consider the history of the Jewish people and the persecution they endured.  Then you might be able to see it from their perspective.  Aggeession was their own only avenue.  To keep up with the current times or be swallowed up.

Or you don’t know the full history 

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In practice I don't see it. They keep going for more land. They are duplicitous, they say pleasantries but always go for more land.

Me too. But we are also under a very right wing government from 2009 until today. Our method is problematic because 3 extremist members can decide to collapse the government if they want to, so in some way the tail controls the dog here.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch

[Thought Art]

@Nivsch I think if you saw the truth you would puke and cry. 

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

In my eyes Israel is simply attempting to expunge its enemies..not grab more land.  Once the threat is tamed it would not go on to conquer other nations.

I am not claiming they would conquer other nations. I am claiming they are building their nation on stolen land.

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You again have to consider the history of the Jewish people and the persecution they endured.  Then you might be able to see it from their perspective.

I have no problem understanding the Israeli perspective. It makes sense. But that perspective is narrow, hypocritical, and selfish.

It is not in alignment with truth or consciousness, which is my main concern here.

If you wanna dominate others to build your nation, go ahead. But I will call it for what it is: domination and selfishness, not righteousness.

If Israelil wants to dominate, that's fine. But they will not get away with bullshitting us about what they are doing.

Edited April 13 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

I live on stolen land too

But I don’t go around lying and bullshitting 

[Nivsch]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Nivsch I think if you saw the truth you would puke and cry. 

Tell me somthing I don't know why all this pyrotechnicals all the time.

Edited April 13 by Nivsch