Israeli Society - 75% for same sex marriage or LGBTQ civil union, top Vegan country

[Karmadhi]

24 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

What you’re doing is plain old atrocities denial, it’s pretty hypocritical behavior for the side that gets off on smelling its farts of moral superiority. Not everything can be mushed through your narrative so you have to resort to denial, backhanded tactics and finding a way of blaming Israel for the morbid stupidity and the depraved behaviors of others. What's new. 

What denial? Did I say this is what I think? I am trying to explain to you how people view this so you can understand why people seem not to care as much about the October attack. I never said that "this or that" did not happen except the 40 beheaded babies which is a proved lie. Anything else like rape, beheadings etc I did not say is not true. I explicitly wrote, "even if it is indeed true, people do not believe it for X Y reason". Then I went on to explain them in a simple way. 

However, I have read countless comments of people saying that they think it is not true. Then I tried to explain to you why that is the case. 

It would be good for you to be open to understand people instead of just putting the messenger on the same boat.

 

[Karmadhi]

30 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

If you don't care about that, that's fine but it would serve you more to not speak about things you don't understand so you won't blatantly expose your hypocrisy, ignorance and morbid disrespect. 

I meant that other groups that have been subject to genocide do not get the same sympathy like the Armenians.

That is all I meant.

My apologies if it came off as too aggressive that was not my intention.

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi Part of the soldiers sadly are affected by our far right wing irresponsible politicians and the results are as we saw.

As a result of this there is a real crisis of discipline problems the head of IDF, Hertzi Halevi, a very moderate person, treats them.

The whole legend of an intentional "genocide", however, is a total myth.

Edited April 9 by Nivsch

[yetineti]

@Vrubel are you trying to gaslight me?

Karmadhi said: 

The risk of loosing another 50 childreen does not justify killing 15.000.

You said:

Are kidding me!? I’ll do everything in the world to save 50 Israeli children. I gladly will give my life for it. I wish The Palestinians viewed their people with the same reverence and did not use them as human shields or disposable pawns.

Edited April 9 by yetineti

[yetineti]

@Vrubel Also what do you mean by ‘you people?’

What group are you throwing me in?

[Nivsch]

On 7.4.2024 at 1:21 PM, Vrubel said:

Btw from mid-April, I'll be in Israel so I can see the thistle bloom(; 

Hurry up to not loose them. We can meet if you want.

@Leo Gura The more I read the more I think both sides are equaly problematic and to blame in the cycle of mutual dehumanization that lead to unhumane actions from both sides, out of the fear each side feel about the other.

Edited April 10 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

@Nivsch Do you think Israel should go through a major change in policy and education just like Gaza probably will?

I feel like they need to abolish Zionism, at least hardcore one and become a secular state and see Palestinians as equal instead of human animals.

To me Zionism is the root of all evil when it comes to Israel.

I see it as 21st century version of Nazism and is destroying Israel.

If you can explain me how is Zionism healthy or helpful would appreciate.

[Vrubel]

11 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Hurry up to not loose them. We can meet if you want.

For sure man,  I’ll actually live in the next town over from yours, so meeting up won’t be a problem.

Without jokes, I am really into nature, especially passionate about plants and snakes. 

[Nivsch]

10 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Nivsch Do you think Israel should go through a major change in policy and education just like Gaza probably will?

In the level of society and values Israel is much much better. The education I went trough, which defined as the formal one, was peace oriented and never dehumanized anyone. In practice though still there is a wide dehumanization because of decades of terror attacks, but again, not in education.

But, in deep right wing sectors and maybe some of their education too, and in IDF actions in West Bank and Gaza, there are huge problems that are routine for years that help fuel the other side's hate. The hard core troops units I would carefully say have a sub culture and thinking bubbles of their own.

Edited April 11 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

42 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

In the level of society and values Israel is much much better.

Yes that is true. However for some reason when it comes specifically to Palestinians they seem to revert to stage blue level of thinking which leads to horrible abuses. In other matters it is definitely orange to green society. Like even secular Jews seem to have a blue attitude towards Palestine often which i find disturbing. I say this because like 80% of them support the horrible crimes in Gaza. Genocide or not, any sensible human would say this has to stop. And for the hostages, but for THOSE people's sakes that are suffering there. For the childreen. "All Gazans support Hamas" tends to be the thinking in Israel at the moment which is as blue as it gets on a frequency.

42 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

But, in deep right wing sectors and maybe some of their education too, and in IDF actions in West Bank and Gaza, there are huge problems that are routine for years that help fuel the other side's hate. The hard core troops units I would carefully say have a sub culture and thinking bubbles of their own.

And why are not these addressed? If they been going on for years now. That is what I meant by my comment.

I am happy you acknowledge this is a thing, it is very unbiased for you to say this. However, I fear that after the october attacks that attitude has expanded to moderates as well. And as I said in a previous comment it does not matter as much as ur typical soldier attitude as much as the high command people's attitude. Soldiers follow orders. If the high command has the right wing attitude you say, it will result on horrible crimes.

But I seen countless videos of IDF soliders boasting about destroying houses, stealing women's clothes, saying "we killed 10 kids today, it was a good day" and other horrible comments. Like dozens of such videos. 

42 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

In practice though still there is a wide dehumanization because of decades of terror attacks, but again, not in education.

Then why did the Israeli government aid Hamas when they are the main group that does these attacks. I saw clips of the PM saying he used them as a tool to divide Palestinians. How is this helping Palestinians go towards a more peaceful which will also make Israelis safer? This is just adding fuel to the fire instead of actually solving the issue. Why are not people angry about this back in Israel?

Edited April 11 by Karmadhi

[Bobby_2021]

@Leo Gura 

Israel is big on LGBTQ, veganism and same sex marriage.

But their politicians and people alike, are among the most far right radicalized fascist people in the whole world. 

How do you square these two things together?

Somethings not adding up. How can such a far-right country advocate for this supposedly far lefty things?
This needs some serious explanation lol. 

Edited April 11 by Bobby_2021

[Vrubel]

16 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

@Leo Gura 

Israel is big on LGBTQ, veganism and same sex marriage.

But their politicians and people alike, are among the most far right radicalized fascist people in the whole world. 

How do you square these two things together?

Somethings not adding up. How can such a far-right country advocate for this supposedly far lefty things?
This needs some serious explanation lol. 

This is the explanation that makes it add up. Israeli society is insanely diverse in terms of spiral stage, culture, ethnicity and religious belief. Most is moderate and reasonable but that does not make for sensational news, social media posts or propaganda. Only a zoom-in on a certain fraction will achieve the desired demonization and narrative-pushing and even then some twisting and stretching are required.  

 

Edited April 11 by Vrubel

[Bobby_2021]

1 minute ago, Vrubel said:

Most is moderate and reasonable but that does not make for sensational news, Social media posts or propaganda. Only a zoom-in on a certain fraction will achieve the desired dehumanization and narrative-pushing.

Yeah, vitriolic hate against Palestinians is totally normal. Most of the media that you see from Israel are not from the streets. They are preapproved contrived opinions of the select few people which is nothing different than state sponsored propaganda.

A few independent journalists interview everyday Israelis have a different story to tell. This makes sense of the other thread that IDF war crimes are a perfect reflection of Israel as a society.

[Nivsch]

23 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

But their politicians and people alike, are among the most far right radicalized fascist people in the whole world. 

You do an untrue generalization.

Look at the relative number of knesset member in every party you can easily find it on Wiki.

And I don't need to tell you how the right wing is getting stronger in Europe too this days and sometimes it sounds even more tough there, at least to me.

Edited April 11 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

12 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Yeah, vitriolic hate against Palestinians is totally normal. Most of the media that you see from Israel are not from the streets. They are preapproved contrived opinions of the select few people which is nothing different than state sponsored propaganda.

A few independent journalists interview everyday Israelis have a different story to tell. This makes sense of the other thread that IDF war crimes are a perfect reflection of Israel as a society.

You jumped abroad on a certain high-speed train following a specific track, I don't know what you're trying to prove to yourself. But reason is not your track and truth is not the destination. 

This YT channel is a goldmine for opinions and views from everyday Israelis (& Palestinians): https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/videos

It's the next best thing from actually going to Israel. 

Edited April 11 by Vrubel

[Karmadhi]

@Vrubel There is definetly a deep dehumanization of Palestinians in Israel. You yourself show it here with your total disregard of 13.000 dead Palestinian childreen while only focusing on 50 Israeli childreen.

But ok, perhaps you can say that "my country people's are more important than others", fair.

But however you seem to be very disturbed with 600 dead Ukranian childreen and you are not Ukranian.

Hence to me it seems that you do not care about Palestinians specifically.

I read your comments when the War in Ukraine started and you seemed very SJW like regarding it and even called Leo too cold on Ukranian suffering.

Meanwhile when Gazans suffer 100x more you tend to be the one that is too cold about it.

Why so?

 

 

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

@Vrubel There is definetly a deep dehumanization of Palestinians in Israel. You yourself show it here with your total disregard of 13.000 dead Palestinian childreen while only focusing on 50 Israeli childreen.

But ok, perhaps you can say that "my country people's are more important than others", fair.

But however you seem to be very disturbed with 600 dead Ukranian childreen and you are not Ukranian.

Hence to me it seems that you do not care about Palestinians specifically.

I read your comments when the War in Ukraine started and you seemed very SJW like regarding it and even called Leo too cold on Ukranian suffering.

Meanwhile when Gazans suffer 100x more you tend to be the one that is too cold about it.

Why so?

 

 

 

Because Ukrainians don't commit atrocities, cheer for them and hide behind their women and children. They defend them! Only women and children are allowed to seek refuge abroad but the men must stay as they should. This is the way of any honorable society. Also I have family connections to Ukraine and my family housed our Ukrainian friends for a while.

Ukrainians are incredibly “chill” people for the lack of a more sophisticated term. They were demonized by Russia as extreme while in reality they were just chill people caring about bettering their lives and country and having genuine amicable relations with ethnic Russians.  

Things like cheering on 7/10 had an incredible effect of dehumanisation.

It’s a complex issue because dehumanization is wrong but you don't win respect with the brainlessness attacking, acting like total human animals towards peace-loving civilized people and hiding behind your own civilians who you are supposed to protect and hold in reverence. 

And they still hold hostages including babies and bright young women who are being sexually abused. In the simplest terms, Israel is justified in fighting as long as those hostages are still there and Hamas poses a threat. 

Edited April 11 by Vrubel

[yetineti]

@Vrubel 🤮

[Nivsch]

6 hours ago, Vrubel said:

For sure man,  I’ll actually live in the next town over from yours, so meeting up won’t be a problem.

Without jokes, I am really into nature, especially passionate about plants and snakes. 

Great. And nice to hear. Me too, but less snakes 😅

Edited April 11 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

@Leo Gura 

Israel is big on LGBTQ, veganism and same sex marriage.

But their politicians and people alike, are among the most far right radicalized fascist people in the whole world. 

How do you square these two things together?

This just shows you how diverse is Israel and how significant is the progressive liberal sector here too.

Last year, the liberal protests against Bibi's plan to reform the courte were huge, with tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands of people every saturday.

Edited April 11 by Nivsch