Israeli Society - 75% for same sex marriage or LGBTQ civil union, top Vegan country

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

 If Palestinians wanted two states they could have waited for a center-left Israeli government that virtually always makes reasonable proposals. 

Every year the UN has a proposal on the two states settlement and Israel and the U.S. block it. The PLO gave up armed resistance decades ago and now they’re at the mercy of violent settlers. When Israel made peaceful settlement impossible they made violent resistance inevitable.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Vrubel said:

If Palesestians lay down their weapons and release the hostages there will be no more war.

Lolz

[Girzo]

@Nivsch No it's not Israel not being "careful enough." They are fucking reckless on purpose, killing innocent lives, bringing misery.

Israelis had been the assholes for a very long-time. If you treat all Palestinian as sub-humans and potential terrorists for decades, you get way more terrorists than you would get by treating them decently, with dignity, as different people, but equals. But no, you treat them as rats, and then, oh, how convenient, they bite back, and then you exterminate them. This is the zoomed-out view of the situation.

Israel deserves international scrutiny, just like Russia has deserved its sanctions with its conquests.

Israel is the more powerful actor, thus more responsibility lies on its shoulder. And let me tell you, it's not dealing with these responsibility skillfully. This is a mess.

It's actually twisted how you defend Israel's government and military actions as sensible. Tell me, what is the goal of this aggression on Palestinian people? Do you really believe this goal is achievable? Through the means currently used? Delusional. 

Old Testament stories played out live once again. Jews coming to the so-called Promised Land and killing out its current inhabitants. Guys, the fuck when did you forget the "don't kill" commandment? 

 

[Past-Philosopher-562]

@Nivsch I would have to look at why they take them as hostage . Last time we checked , Jewish zionist terror group supported by the west occupied their territory and commited a full scale human sacrfice . This what zionist survival strategy , slaughter and occupy and if you have response play a victim .

 

It's a laughable by the way that you call yourself a yellew thinker . An Israeli and Yellow stage values . Funny .

[yetineti]

@Nivsch

7 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Do you add to this equation the human shield strategy of hamas, or you think they are innocent and dumb that just surrender their physical inferiority and let IDF kill them?

Of course I have taken that into consideration.

What I have never taken into consideration is killing women or children.

The IDF has currently killed 20,000+ women and children. Injured 50,000+ women and children.

I am not a fool. This will happen in war but the proportions here are far beyond any other war anytime recently and its cause has been obvious disregard for human life from a scared and angry IDF.

It’s becoming genocidal- many, even within Israel, think it already is a genocide.

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by yetineti

[Emerald]

Those things are all well and good... but being more open to gay people and having more Vegans doesn't mean that the Israeli government isn't committing a genocide.

Lots of imperialist nations have very socially progressive people within them (the US is one of them)... but it doesn't mean that their treatment of those in countries/cultures considered "other" will be fair or just or good.

[Leo Gura]

And Hitler was a vegetarian.

[Merkabah Star]

And..

Genghis Kahn who killed 1,780,000 people in just one hour. Pol Pot, who murdered 2 million Cambodians, or one quarter of his fellow countrymen was also an avowed vegan. 

[Nivsch]

10 hours ago, Emerald said:

Those things are all well and good... but being more open to gay people and having more Vegans doesn't mean that the Israeli government isn't committing a genocide.

Lots of imperialist nations have very socially progressive people within them (the US is one of them)... but it doesn't mean that their treatment of those in countries/cultures considered "other" will be fair or just or good.

I can undersrand the concern when a foregin country (from your view) bombs a small country for a while when after that the aid for this country people started to lessen. This smells bad and listen. I can really understand the conotations it brings.

But a good production still doesn't mean reality. When I, at least, take a closer look I see no real "flesh" inside this eco chambered genocide narrative of the anti Israeli camp, and I wrote what I think countless times, so I want to ask you, if you disagree with me, why do you think there is a genocide?

Nevertheless, what I can admit is that Netanyahu's policy is highly irresponasible, harmful, cost lives of Gazans, clumsy, selfish, personal survival based and amateur in the way he manage this war. I think on that we can maybe both agree.

Edited April 7 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

10 hours ago, Raze said:

Every year the UN has a proposal on the two states settlement and Israel and the U.S. block it. The PLO gave up armed resistance decades ago and now they’re at the mercy of violent settlers. When Israel made peaceful settlement impossible they made violent resistance inevitable.

When Israel let thousands of Gazans to work in its area for years, when Israel proposed the palestinians countless times a solution for the conflict, when Israel built a billion dollars fence to not have to mess with Gaza, when Israel gave hamas hunderds of million of dollars of qataric money for years to help him become more moderate...

Edited April 7 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lolz

WTF!? How is that "Lolz"? 
If Hamas lays down its weapons and frees the hostages the war will be over immediately. You basically behave like a standard teenage internet troll.
 

[Nivsch]

@Vrubel If hamas fully surrender - of course.

[BlueOak]

39 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

WTF!? How is that "Lolz"? 
If Hamas lays down its weapons and frees the hostages the war will be over immediately. You basically behave like a standard teenage internet troll.
 

1, What plans are in place to replace Hamas with a better central governing authority that will bring some stability and legitimacy to the region?
Israel equates Hamas with the Palestinians, so how can the Palestinians themselves disappear? It's completely backward logic and a flawed approach, they should have been doing the exact opposite, and trying to separate Hamas from the people, then replaced the authority with a better one. Instead every action the IDF has taken has strengthened Hamas and Iran in the long term.

There will be an authority that rules over a region, and unless a better one is put in place, it'll be another one that is actively hostile to Israel. So what are you asking, that they rename that authority as something else, the IDF go home to celebrate, and the cycle starts back up? 

2, The 2,000-pound bombs on buildings make releasing hostages impossible. They are no longer alive, like most of the northern area.

3, The leadership of every major country involved requires war to sustain itself with hatred of others (or just an enemy). America - Iran - Israel - Hamas

4, Everyone combined has generated enough hate for another 50 years of violence.

[Nivsch]

On 7.4.2024 at 6:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

And Hitler was a vegetarian.

This thread is not to show how wonderful we are, but to somehow fix an incredibly cruel dehumanization I feel we are going through in other threads here and in the media. Of course the blame is not at all on you but on immature users.

Believe me I have my own identity I have built to far away from only shallow nationalistic ideas, but from the moment this war started it gets to me too.

I know that maybe my talking are being filtered now to as less important because Israelis are talking from a privilleged position, but this is a skewed paradigm. Jews and Arabs in this whole land (including west bank and Gaza) are almost equal in their number. 7.1 million Jews to 6.7 million Arabs. And also similar in the size of area they live on.

The only difference is that Israelis Jews were "unfortunate" to become much stronger militarily because this was the only way to survive against 6 Arab countries, and from that, an illusionary, highly skewed picture of 'oppression' is being created.

Don't get me wrong there are indeed big problems in the way Israelis manage this friction I agreed to in the conversations here, but this is still very far from being this A-symmetric fantasy scheme Al jazeera and the like are trying to draw.

Edited April 9 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

41 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

This thread is not to show how wonderful we are, but to somehow fix an incerdibly cruel dehumanization I feel we are going through in other threads here and in the media. Of course the blame is not at all on you but on immature users.

Believe me I have my own identity I have built to far away from only shallow nationalistic ideas, but from the moment this war started it gets to me too.

I know that maybe my talking are being filtered now to as less important because Israelis are talking from a privilleged position, but this is a skewed paradigm. Jews and Arabs in this whole land (including west bank and Gaza) are almost equal in their number. 7.1 million Jews to 6.7 million Arabs. And also similar in the size of area they live on.

The only difference is that Israelis Jews were "unfortunate" to become much stronger militarily because this was the only way to survive against 6 Arab countries, and from that, an illusionary, highly skewed picture of 'oppression' is being created.

Don't get me wrong there are indeed big problems in the way Israelis manage this friction I agreed to in the conversations here, but this is still very far from being this A-symmetric fantasy scheme Al jazeera and the like are trying to draw.

Same. I got the feeling I have to go hardcore on the defensive here because of all the falsehoods, twisting and stretching, hypocrisy and the agenda-driven hyperbolic labels. 

I am perfectly capable in acknowledging our own faults and recognizing the vicious-cyclical nature of it all and I don't expect people to share my worldview, some will be more cynical towards my people and that's fine but more often than not it crosses certain lines which I will not stand for. 

Even when I share something reasonable and peace-oriented I often get slammed down, so how can I have a reasonable and respectable objective discussion? I can't, It's too childish here.

Btw from mid-April, I'll be in Israel so I can see the thistle bloom(; 

Edited April 7 by Vrubel

[bebotalk]

Doesn't the Torah say homosexuality is a sin? 

I guess they're "based" for undermining their own religion. 

Though the standard comeback is "it was written by men millennia ago!!" 

Who though can say what is true or not in any holy text? People need to stop abusing texts, merely since they see a given facet of it as an inconvenience. If one has an open mind towards it being a mere reflection of moral/cultural biases at the time of writing, then an open mind to it being the true values of God is equal in worth. Nobody can say that either position is "better" than the other. 

 

 

[yetineti]

@Vrubel

8 hours ago, Vrubel said:

WTF!? How is that "Lolz"? 
If Hamas lays down its weapons and frees the hostages the war will be over immediately. You basically behave like a standard teenage internet troll.
 

Name calling doesn’t go far here.

And of course if one side surrenders it is more likely to be over. That’s been true in every war and it’s laughable to even suggest.

Also, surrendering is much different than agreeing on anything. Have you ever been asked to just give up, surrender? How easy was it for you? Was it because you should or because the other side was simply intimidating?

Israel calling for a cease fire is like taking all your legos and punching you in the face until you give my ball back and telling you, while I’m punching you, that if you would’ve never taken my ball I wouldn’t have had to take all of your legos and punch you in the face and if you just give my ball back I would maybe stop.

[Nemra]

Well, it makes the problem even worse. Other less developed countries that are in conflict with Israel or outraged by the war will deepen their hate towards gays. Conservatives in those countries will love this, and it'll help them preach that the "west" will corrupt their youth and that having a democracy is just a tool to control them and make them unmoral like those "westerners". It'll make them, especially the fanatics, preach more about how they are being controlled by the Freemasons, Illuminati, and Jews.

[Nivsch]

On 7.4.2024 at 1:21 PM, Vrubel said:

Same. I got the feeling I have to go hardcore on the defensive here because of all the falsehoods, twisting and stretching, hypocrisy and the agenda-driven hyperbolic labels. 

Exactly how I feel!!

The fact that Bibi does all wrong in Gaza what cost Gazans lives, does not contradict the list you just mentioned with which I am 100% agree.

Edited April 8 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

@Nivsch @Vrubel I love how you guys lowkey blame Gaza overall adult population for the October 7th attack and the war but when Israel does 100x worse back, you just blame the government for it and ignore all the people.

Ironically the citizens of Gaza that are being killed are not any less innocent than the citizens of Israel that were killed in October 7th. If you think they are, those are your biases at play. Nothing more.