Why doesnt the West, especially the US, abandon Israel?

[Bobby_2021]

16 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

The ultra right wing government* 

Sorry we needed to become powerful to survive against 6 arab countries.

Nothing is threatening the survival of Israel more than this war. It's said that most powerful nations collapse from the inside not the outside. It's scary how dangerously close to this, Israel is at the moment. I am genuinely concerned for the direction they are headed in. 

1. US is already pissed off enough of the Israel. They might ditch Israel anytime.

2. The Iran-Russia alliance will jump on the scene and take control of the situation anytime, risking a wider war in the region. 

Then, things will not be so easy as flexing on broke arab nations.

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

1. US is already pissed off enough of the Israel. They might ditch Israel anytime.

I am with you in that. Netanyahu's general head in a wall approach and his refusal to speak about geopolitical actions after the war pisses Biden off and I understand Biden here.

Edited April 5 by Nivsch

[royce]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Link?

haha that's funny when you're saying  give me a link, like you give a shit  , or you're going to change your mind ,

 

 link : https://x.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1775952936436158879

and this is another one : 

https://x.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1773089007489982854

 

if you want more,  tell me boy 

Edited April 5 by royce

[bebotalk]

5 hours ago, royce said:

This is cool, But Unfortunately this not how the world works , maybe in next 50 years maybe more 

It's how it works now. Law is imperfect. people don't always follows rules. Life is imperfect. And? It's always been that way. it doesn't mean that countries don't attempt to follow international law. The point then that both you and Leo state is moot. If international law is invalid, then why did Trump complain about European NATO countries not paying 2% of GDP on national defence, when the USA does? So the USA is following international law, isn't it, since NATO is a treaty and thus international law. What about the new NAFTA treaty he negotiated? Canada cannot arbitrarily deny an American citizen access to their country, under the treaty. Again, international law provides a framework but it doesn't mean there are perfect actors. Some people drive above speed limits. Some people burgle houses. Others might litter when there are explicit laws against it in their communities. Humans are imperfect and thus countries are such. 

[royce]

1 hour ago, bebotalk said:

why did Trump complain about European NATO countries not paying 2% of GDP on national defence, when the USA does? So the USA is following international law

How does international law intersect with Trump and NATO? Does the United States contribute financially to NATO in support of international law? NO Europe falls within the American sphere of influence, similar to the Middle East, this influence doesn’t directly impact compliance with international law.

American foreign policy views Russia as an adversary, and consequently, its actions in Europe are influenced by this perspective

 

1 hour ago, bebotalk said:

Humans are imperfect and thus countries are such. 

this is what I'm saying i hope in the future gonna be better Humans and better Goverments  , but i think we need a long time to Achieve this  

[Merkabah Star]

@Bobby_2021

thank you for being so real and awake! 
 

 

[Merkabah Star]

14 hours ago, royce said:

Almost Every Arab  country has a us base in it

I read an article last week saying the US pier they are building on Gaza could be considered US territory. 😳

Could be a first step to a military base right there on the Mediterranean for America? 

 

[royce]

38 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

I read an article last week saying the US pier they are building on Gaza could be considered US territory. 😳

Could be a first step to a military base right there on the Mediterranean for America? 

 

 

[BlueOak]

Israel holds Iran in check and allows America to project power, to secure oil and trade routes through the area.

It's a similar strategy with Taiwan in China and Russia in Ukraine.

This takes uncertain situations caused by expansionist authoritarian powers and creates certain outcomes. Russia and China in particular, have been land grabbing for decades, going for trade routes, financial centers, ports.. Iran to a lesser extent, because it is a smaller power works through proxies, to create dominion over the Middle East (oil) and to position their influence in nearby regions such as eastern Africa where possible.

Everyone does what they can to push their influence outward, because we are playing zero-sum games. So your question is, why does humanity play zero-sum games? Because we the people, are in a survival, fight/flight/freeze state most of the time. You can ask why, generational trauma spreads into education, action, thought, design/execution, etc. Each war adds another layer of it.

It's a level of consciousness, some people know what I am telling you but have vast fortunes because humanity is perpetually reasoning and procreating itself from a survival mentality and relying on what they provide. Media - Weapons - Fuel - Construction - Medicines - Shipping - Politicians - etc  Like a drug dealer, he keeps his clients coming back for more. They don't see or don't know they are what they are causing, and they are experiencing what they are causing. It's a horrific state of unconsciousness that humanity has entered into.

Edited April 6 by BlueOak

[Bobby_2021]

8 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

@Bobby_2021

thank you for being so real and awake! 
 

 

Thanks. There is a limit to everything.

1 hour ago, BlueOak said:

Israel holds Iran in check a

Give me some solid tangible objectives that Israel accomplished for US These are pretty vague statements that doesn't mean much.

Intelligence reports say that Iran is preparing to attack US in response to Israel bombing Damascus embassy that killed top iranian officials.

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Give me some solid tangible objectives that Israel accomplished for US These are pretty vague statements that doesn't mean much.

Intelligence reports say that Iran is preparing to attack US in response to Israel bombing Damascus embassy that killed top iranian officials.

I am speaking in past tense, of course, because Israel has gone so far right; they have moved into ethnic cleansing and genocide territory. It'll take a few more decades of right wing think tanks to fully brainwash the American public into accepting those as realities, though, to be fair we are most of the way there now if we look at the parties and population.

The west has agreements with oil producing nations, we maintain the status quo and get deals on oil. We get to put our companies there, taking the oil out and the vast, complicated supply chains it takes to process and export it that need to be constantly in operation, so it doesn't back up and close the sites down. More importantly, because of how countries stupidly do their foreign policy, we stop other countries like Iran gaining power over the region, and its exports. - Zero Sum thinking.

This stability through not having destructive wars or piracy, for example, is a snippet of how international trade works, you can look at all the routes and the Trillions up Trillions of dollars in the global economy maintained by those largely accessible routes. We work as a globalized system, this allows countries or regions to specialize and support each other, which lowers prices and increases our quality of life. Not just in terms of product prices or fuel prices, food, or energy bills but also with things like recycling waste and giving it to people who can better use it. The development of increasingly sophisticated technologies is only possible by drawing on international expertise, through global cooperation, and the general maintenance of our planet to prevent it from becoming a dustbowl.

By asking me what do we get out of it, you are showing the isolationist trend in American Righting politics. Which utterly fails to understand how the world actually works, and has the Brexit attitude that we are better off doing it ourselves. Its shortsightedness, as England found out the hard way, it didn't help at all.

If trade and your economic well being, quality of life etc is not enough to sway you, I'll answer: How about not having WW3?

If Russia, China, and Iran are not held in place by these three countries/regions, Ukraine, Taiwan and Israel, backed by NATO and the west, then we have other countries fighting them instead. Like Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics vs Russia. Like Japan and South Korea vs China and North Korea. Like Saudi Arabia and Iran etc. 

People are always looking to push their spheres of influence outward, because people are not robotic creations that respect lines on maps, be it cultural, economic, religious or military influence.

Edited April 6 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

This is exaggerated, but this its what's happening in Europe with the global isolationist me me me trend. Ditto Britain and the world, i'm not pointing the finger at America, the whole world is almost in the same trend. Belarus has said similar things repeatedly so its not even a western or eastern thing.

[Bobby_2021]

• The Israeli attack on the Iranian embassy happened with the US made F-35.
• Israel did not inform the US about the attack.
• The air strike killed 6 top Iranian officials and happened on sovereign Iranian territory. 

They are trying to escalate the war using weapons they got from US, since they can use that as an excuse for getting even more funding from the US.

As a retaliation, Iran is all set to strike US and Israel.

And you think that US is involved in a give and take relationship with the Israel. Israel will do as it pleases and US has no option but to be it's bitch. Their entire relationship screams that US is being held captive against it's will. lmao this is a joke.

Why should the US face the revenge for shit that Israel started? This is getting out of hand real quick.

[thenondualtankie]

It's a good question.

I think it's possible for the West to revoke support for the Israeli operation. It happened with apartheid South Africa, despite the economic and geopolitical gains.

The modus operandi for all geopolitical powers is self-interest, but there are cases where this seems to break down.

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Why should the US face the revenge for shit that Israel started? This is getting out of hand real quick.

For sending unlimited weapons and not caring how they are used.
For shielding Israel from the results of their actions.
Both done with almost no political opposition to speak of, because there is no political opposition to rightwing actions. The options are: weapons, or more weapons, and do you need our troops? Good thing everyone 'owned the libs', demonized socialists, and mocked every libertarian idea . When a politician actually spoke up, Ilhan Omar, what did America do to her, kicked her off the foreign affairs committee.

That's why. We create our own futures. The Hamas gang helped create theirs, and we, Israel, the USA and the UK have chosen to create ours however that comes at us. 
 

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

They are trying to escalate the war using weapons they got from US, since they can use that as an excuse for getting even more funding from the US.

As a retaliation, Iran is all set to strike US and Israel.

And you think that US is involved in a give and take relationship with the Israel. Israel will do as it pleases and US has no option but to be it's bitch. Their entire relationship screams that US is being held captive against it's will. lmao this is a joke.

Yes. The level of how much America jumps when Israel says so surprised even me. Britain approved airstrikes on Yemen without even consulting parliament; they told them after the fact.

That's collectively, Trump, my leaders, your leaders, every politician with any clout. Then there is Biden who is a Zionist, so he's not exactly held captive, he's doing what he believes in. While everyone else does what they think will earn them money, and keep them in power or get them elected.

Edited April 6 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, thenondualtankie said:

It's a good question.

I think it's possible for the West to revoke support for the Israeli operation. It happened with apartheid South Africa, despite the economic and geopolitical gains.

The modus operandi for all geopolitical powers is self-interest, but there are cases where this seems to break down.

The level of equipment being sent is in preparation for a regional war. Not guaranteed but i'd be happily astounded if that wasn't the case now.

[Exystem]

Several reasons, in short:

- zionist bible translations that caused amercian christians to believe god stil cares about and loves israel more than any other people on the world and they have legitimate purpose in whatever they're doing, lots of politicians are either jewish or (zionist) christians. Biblical Book of revalation - it states that israel plays an important role in the "End time", with armageddon and so on. Israel must be supported no matter what - mentality.

- Money: weapons, huge gas reservoirs at the coast of gaza

- destabilized middle east for better oil prices, Control of/over muslim powers, proxy war cash cows

- strong technology bonds, especially military technology - israelis are technoloically extremely advanced, look up how many of nobel prices winning scientist are jewish compared to islamic - insane gap!

- similar values and foreign policies, US cops are oftentimes trained in israel, the knee on the neck technique comes from there, many cops do a month of training there to learn from israelis how to effectively control people

- they actually test new weapons there, for example extremely strong tear gas capable of killing people. It's perfect to test modern weapons like highfrequency weapons, microwave or ultrasonic for example, but also drone war

- advancement of israelis new AI "Lavender" - extremely intersting for US to collect data of the AI system that targets which people to be bombed - the ai war has already begun, US wants to be at the top too, so they collaborate for sure to advvance that AI to be able to use it in their own (future) wars

- some other reasons you're probably too closeminded for since you don't want to hear so-called "conspiracy-theories". If you want to know the full picture, you won't be able to not take into account that there are conspiracies happening (like throughout all the ages) and some of the theories around them are highly probable wheras most of them are complete BS. It's very hard to distibguish these two so it's a pragmatic approach to dismiss them all but it's not a pursuit in truth and the right one for a full big picture. Things will stay quite mysterious if you dismiss all of them, you then need to explain policies a lot through attributing insane levels of dumbness of politicians and improbabilities.

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, BlueOak said:

Good thing everyone 'owned the libs', demonized socialists, and mocked every libertarian idea .

You think it's right wing only because you belong in the top 5% of humanity.

The US & Israel are among the most liberal nations in the world considering how conservative the rest of the world is. So make no mistake, the libs are who got us into this. What you are seeing is liberalism. 

1 hour ago, BlueOak said:

When a politician actually spoke up, Ilhan Omar, what did America do to her, kicked her off the foreign affairs committee

She was kicked for "anti Semitic" remarks even though she replied with one word answers on X. Like "AIPAC" 

It's on libs who made it racist to criticize anyone but straight white men. And now you couldn't even criticize Israel with facts for fear of being called  an anti Semite. 

It's the libs who dug their own ground. Own it.

[Raze]

The west doesn’t have to abandon Israel. Just tell Israel if they don’t cease committing war crimes and start working for a realistic path to peace they’ll get no aid and sanctions. If Israel was working towards a two or one state solution, removing illegal settlements, and pursuing peace with their neighbors I would be fine with giving them even more aid and support.

Edited April 6 by Raze

[royce]

8 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Israel holds Iran in check and allows America to project power, to secure oil and trade routes through the area.

It's a similar strategy with Taiwan in China and Russia in Ukraine.

This is not accurate at all