Consciousness Does Not Ultimately Exist

[ivankiss]

Consciousness is the only 'thing' that's real within and beyond the dream. There is nothing outside of it, nothing other than it.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, ivankiss said:

Consciousness is the only 'thing' that's real within and beyond the dream. There is nothing outside of it, nothing other than it.

What is consciousness conscious of?

[Zigzag Idiot]

14 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

What is consciousness conscious of?

I'm being lazy and answering the question with quotes out of the Ridhwan Glossary.

But let me first start by saying  I don't know!  But I'm leery of all this talk about imagination. Unconstrained imagination bolsters self deception. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no.

Here's some food for thought though from the mind of A.H. Almaas

Self-Aware Consciousness

At some point, however, you come to the recognition of what we call “essential truth.” Essential truth is not an insight about something but the apprehending of the immediate reality of the moment. This immediate reality is presence—the quality of beingness—as when one is experiencing an essential aspect, such as Compassion or Strength. We find out here that one of the most important characteristics of essential presence is that it is self-aware consciousness.

Absolute Being

So when we say Absolute, we mean Being -- Essence with no qualities, before qualities come into Being. Then you know it's the source of everything, because you see everything arising from it.

Diamond Heart Book Three, pg. 165

Absolute Dimension

Because the absolute is not simply nonbeing, we experience it as a field, an expanse, and not simply nonbeing. To understand this we need to make a particular differentiation explicit. We have been using two terms interchangeably, namely absolute and absolute dimension. Strictly speaking, the absolute is the ultimate nature of Reality, and it is beyond dimensions; for dimensions are the experience of manifestation. Yet, we do experience the absolute as a dimension, boundless and infinite, an infinity that contains and holds all manifestation, including the other boundless dimensions. We can say that the absolute is the unmanifest, the ultimate truth and mystery of Being, beyond all dimensions and qualities. But when it begins to manifest appearance, this manifestation appears as if in an expanse, an infinite and boundless expanse, that looks like black space. Manifestation appears always in the context of time and space. It always possesses an expanse in time and space. Therefore, when we witness appearance from this stance of the absolute we see an expanse appearing in a more vast, dark expanse, the absolute. We have the sense of the absolute as an expanse, as a vast infinite black space. The absolute appears in this perception as a boundless dimension that underlies all other dimensions. But in reality the absolute is beyond space and time, for it is beyond manifestation.

The Inner Journey Home, pg. 394

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

Strictly speaking, the absolute is the ultimate nature of Reality

I'm not seeing the Absolute being the ultimate nature of Reality. The Absolute is also the seeing of the Absolute as the ultimate nature of Reality meaning the Absolute is also that. Nature implies a thing that has a nature. The Absolute is not a thing.

[Princess Arabia]

8 minutes ago, Zigzag Idiot said:

Because the absolute is not simply nonbeing, we experience it as a field,

The Absolute cannot be experienced because it is also the dream of experience. The Absolute isn't a dream, the experience is. Saying we experience it is duality. "We and it". Who is the we and what is the it. If it's the Absolute then it is both.

[emil1234]

@Princess Arabia well you can achieve states of consciousness, where there is nothing but consciousness. pure awareness. so i guess that implies that awareness/consciousness needs nothing to be conscious of except consciousness itself

Edited April 1 by emil1234

[Juan]

Many subjects like this one, trying to understand the nature of consciousness I believe is better with the hand of psychedelics. We can do all the gymnastics you want with logic, but sometimes, these answers comes way beyond the human language. I’m not saying you should try psychedelics cuz not everyone is suited for it but, I believe is a huge help in order to understand this subject and many others. Consciousness is everything and the only thing that exists. 

[Razard86]

What she means is....Consciousness is not a perception. Perception is the creation of a something. Since Consciousness is the only thing that exists, perception is Consciousness. But Consciousness does not need perception....it can exist without perception. So when she says Consciousness does not exist, she is saying it doesn't exist in the sense that if you got rid of all somethings/objects of perception, Consciousness is still there....it just can't know it's there. 

When there is no something, there only exists the pure potentiality of that something. When there is a something, there exists the actuality of that potentiality of that something. So Consciousness at its core....is absence of proof of its existence....without first imagining existence. So existence is it's proof that it exists....but not as a something or a particular. 

And that's it. Oh and Consciousness is TRUTH....because it is everything...and it cannot be eradicated. So Consciousness is TRUTH. And since it cares and fully accepts what it is. It is LOVE. And that's it. It is pure Truth and pure Love, and all arguments fall to the wayside that say otherwise.

The proof that Consciousness cares is that it keeps generating what IS!!! Consciousness DOES NOT NEED to generate anything. It does all of this because it can, and it has a desire to, but it has no NEEDS. It could eradicate everything right now and that would be it. But notice...it doesn't. That means it doesn't, because it cares about it. But see Consciousness in all of its wisdom realizes it would get trapped in whatever it created because it loves whatever it creates Absolutely. So it created something called decline. 

Consciousness made what we call physical, decline and that is how it escapes whatever dream it creates. 

Edited April 1 by Razard86

[Ishanga]

The "Consciousness Doesn't Exist" argument, or that nothing exists, come from what I term the Top Down methodology, where whatever label you attach to it, Absolute, Consciousness, God, Infinity, Brahman, etc is all there IS, its really a philosophy of Denial, its actually very Stupid, since the fact is your reading this right now, someone started this thread and topic and ppl are discussing it disagreeing, agreeing using material things to do so, things that were invented in a non existing right now past, 50yrs ago this would not be happening, now it is, so it ridiculous to say nothing exist when we are using existing things just to talk/write about it via the instruments of our body and mind, via the information we have read or thru direct experience, how does direct experience happen if nothing exists lol!

Just do me a favor, all you that say Nothing Exists, drop a brick on your foot, just do it and report back what happened! You won't do it because you know what will happen, but nothing exists lol!

[Razard86]

9 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

The "Consciousness Doesn't Exist" argument, or that nothing exists, come from what I term the Top Down methodology, where whatever label you attach to it, Absolute, Consciousness, God, Infinity, Brahman, etc is all there IS, its really a philosophy of Denial, its actually very Stupid, since the fact is your reading this right now, someone started this thread and topic and ppl are discussing it disagreeing, agreeing using material things to do so, things that were invented in a non existing right now past, 50yrs ago this would not be happening, now it is, so it ridiculous to say nothing exist when we are using existing things just to talk/write about it via the instruments of our body and mind, via the information we have read or thru direct experience, how does direct experience happen if nothing exists lol!

Just do me a favor, all you that say Nothing Exists, drop a brick on your foot, just do it and report back what happened! You won't do it because you know what will happen, but nothing exists lol!

DEEP SLEEP.

You don't understand because your mind is closed. You are very ideological. Seek to understand, Not to debate all the time. Each Spiritual Tradition and their teachings exists for a reason. Not every perspective of God learns the same way.

[Ishanga]

43 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

DEEP SLEEP.

You don't understand because your mind is closed. You are very ideological. Seek to understand, Not to debate all the time. Each Spiritual Tradition and their teachings exists for a reason. Not every perspective of God learns the same way.

When You make a claim like You are now, that in and of itself demonstrates Individuality, you do not perceive life as I do, that means I have choice.  We all have the same ability, to Perceive life as it is, this is absolute Clarity, with that you will realize that we are all One, but via an Individual Body/Mind complex, thus as you say "Not every perspective of God learns the same way", if all there was was One Absolute, this would not be possible, this disagreement proves Individuality, Individual Free Will and levels of Conscious Awareness exist!

Plus this is all word mumbo jumbo, it doesn't mean anything, say what You want, claim what you want, it means nothing unless the experience of the perceiver transforms, for the individual to transform!

Edited April 1 by Ishanga

[DJ Comaschi]

@Princess Arabia it seems like you are just changing the word “consciousness” with the word “dream”

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, DJ Comaschi said:

@Princess Arabia it seems like you are just changing the word “consciousness” with the word “dream”

Consciousness is the dream.

[Princess Arabia]

9 hours ago, Ishanga said:

The "Consciousness Doesn't Exist" argument, or that nothing exists, come from what I term the Top Down methodology, where whatever label you attach to it, Absolute, Consciousness, God, Infinity, Brahman, etc is all there IS, its really a philosophy of Denial, its actually very Stupid, since the fact is your reading this right now, someone started this thread and topic and ppl are discussing it disagreeing, agreeing using material things to do so, things that were invented in a non existing right now past, 50yrs ago this would not be happening, now it is, so it ridiculous to say nothing exist when we are using existing things just to talk/write about it via the instruments of our body and mind, via the information we have read or thru direct experience, how does direct experience happen if nothing exists lol!

Just do me a favor, all you that say Nothing Exists, drop a brick on your foot, just do it and report back what happened! You won't do it because you know what will happen, but nothing exists lol!

If you consider yourself a person with a life that has things and working towards something and having consciousness and an individual that is separate from life, then all you said is valid. If you don't then it can't be. The only reason why you say what you say is because you believe you are. If you didn't you wouldn't care. I never said nothing exists, exist means to stand out, what stands out? If I say I'm not an individual nor a person with consciousness, that doesn't mean that an individual with consciousness is writing this, you assume that so saying who is writing and reading is futile. You're assuming there's someone writing and reading. 

I never said  if someone dropped a brick on my foot i wouldn't cry, but that still isn't saying there's a person with consciousness crying. It doesn't really matter what you say or think and it doesn't matter what i say or think, these are just words on a screen that no one is typing and things are still what they are. 

I could have kept this whole comment non personal by leaving out the I and replacing it with this character or by speaking in a non-dual fashion as in crying is happening etc, but that would just be me trying prove a point and trying to convince you of something and it wouldn't matter because these are just words. I still have a sense of individuality and am still deluded and experiencing the dream but that doesn't matter, as I'm aware the I AM is the dream made up of a bunch of stories and even that is illusory. I don't want to turn this into a belief system, its quite obvious to me that this is the case and you denying this is also the case so either way, it doesn't matter.

Edited April 1 by Princess Arabia

[ryandesreu]

21 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Consciousness is a part of the dream. To say we are conscious, we have to be conscious of something. That equates to subject and object. There is just THIS, which is total and includes the dream of being conscious and aware. Awareness also isn't real since that implies something being aware of something else. Neither are Truth and only exists on the relative domain which is all illusory. 

There is just what's happening without even a Source. There is no Source as that also implies a thing that has a source. This is total, complete and is not two. Totally inseparable. The experience is the dream. There's not even experience, it's appearing within the illusory dream. A dream that's not really happening, but apparently so.

I'm not saying we're not conscious and that there is no Consciousness, but it's just part of the dream and not the Absolute which is ultimately all there is. The dream of separation is the illusion.

 

 

 

 

 

This is not real. This is not illusion. It isn't both real and unreal, nor is it neither, and it isn’t that what is written here.

Edited April 1 by ryandesreu

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, ryandesreu said:

This is not real. This is not illusion. It isn't both real and unreal, nor is it neither, and it isn’t that what is written here.

It just is.

[Javfly33]

What a bunch of nonsense. You are pure consciousness, is something exists is you. Rest is imagination. 

[ryandesreu]

The idea of there being a you which is Consciousness is an idea,  a thought, as is what is written here. 

Edited April 1 by ryandesreu

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

What a bunch of nonsense. You are pure consciousness, is something exists is you. Rest is imagination. 

Contradicts totality. You are + Consciousness =2

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, ryandesreu said:

it isn’t that what is written here.

It is. What else could what's written there/here be.

Edited April 2 by Princess Arabia