How is pick up a low conscious activity?

[Zen LaCroix]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

Then, when you look farther into it, you realize that they're thinking with their dicks. They see a hot woman, their dick gets hard and now, instead of channeling their sexual-energy into their work, they go 'me want to fuck, me go talk to strange woman'. It is kinda objectifying, if we're going to be honest, to make the decision to pursue a woman just because of the way she looks.

This is the practical reality of pick-up. Now, you may say 'not necessarily, what if she made eye-contact with him and they had an instant connection? Shouldn't he know how to convert that?' What I'm talking about is the norm, this would be the edge-case. 

Of course they're thinking with their dicks. Pick up is about getting sex. We are not approaching women to read the bible with her 

Women also pursue men sometimes just because of the way that man looks. Women objectify too. Have you seen the way they react to "Magic Mike" and those Chippendales shows in Las Vegas

I've realized everybody has different levels of ethics and what they consider bad or good. I feel as though as long as you are not forcing a girl to do something she doesn't want or using blackmail or coercion then your actions are ethical

 

Edited March 28 by Zen LaCroix

[mr_engineer]

6 minutes ago, Zen LaCroix said:

Of course they're thinking with their dicks. Pick up is about getting sex. We are not approaching women to read the bible with her (generally)

Right. Now, from female perspective, the problem is that the objectification is the cause of a lot of trauma for them. 

6 minutes ago, Zen LaCroix said:

I've realized everybody has different levels of ethics and what they consider bad or good. I feel as though as long as you are not forcing a girl to do something she doesn't want or using blackmail or coercion then your actions are ethical

I agree with you. 

Now, having said that, the concern of how conscious you're being, is a very different one from how ethical you're being. As long as you're following the law, you're being ethical. (You can be an ethical, peace-loving narcissist!) But, if you want that the sexual-experience actually feels good to her, if you don't want to be a part of the problem of unconsciousness in PUAs, that's a totally different ballgame. Now, narcissism will not fly. 

Edited March 28 by mr_engineer

[Zen LaCroix]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

if you want that the sexual-experience actually feels good to her, if you don't want to be a part of the problem of unconsciousness in PUAs, that's a totally different ballgame. Now, narcissism will not fly. 

Lots of women enjoy sex that is rough and degrading both physically and verbally where they are made to feel like a sexual object 

[mr_engineer]

9 minutes ago, Zen LaCroix said:

Lots of women enjoy sex that is rough and degrading both physically and verbally where they are made to feel like a sexual object 

No, that's domination and submission. Submission is natural to femininity, but objectification will feel unsafe to a feminine woman. Usually, there is in-depth communication about turn-ons, turn-offs and building of trust between them for the woman to consent to this kind of sex. This is the opposite of objectification, where there's no communication, you're just acting on your impulses. 

[Zen LaCroix]

It was nice to hear everyones perspective. Basically what I've gotten is that because the pursuit of sex is a survival based activity that's what makes it low conscious. But that doesn't make it an inherently bad thing. We all have survival needs and its our individual choice to live the type of lives that we want anyway

[StarStruck]

8 hours ago, thierry said:

Holding frame is manipulation

Nothing wrong with manipulation if it is done with style. 

When I'm selling I'm manipulating too. The customer knows it too. It is just part of the game of life. 

To be frank most women are not wise enough to make good partner decisions. They are too emotional and make decisions from there. So you have to catter to that somehow. For her best will and yours. 

Some here are trying to be Saint which is not possible. To be alive is to have both the devil in you as God. You can't totally push away your selfishness and still be alive. That will create a huge shadow. 

Edited March 29 by StarStruck