How is pick up a low conscious activity?

[Zen LaCroix]

Leo I’ve heard you say that pick up is a low conscious activity and I  don’t understand how?

Most men want to sleep with girls and if they could they would sleep with a lot of them. Thats why famous people sleep with a lot of girls. The athletes in college threw parties and slept with lots of girls. 

Are the really good looking men, men with really good game and natural charisma who are naturally able to sleep with lots of women low conscious too? Are you saying sleeping with lots of women is low conscious or just the guys who have to learn this?  

I feel like it forces you to have strength as a man to force yourself to do those approaches. It requires a growth mindset. Requires a lot of letting go or endurance to consistently get your ego crushed. To experience these negative emotions when getting rejected and to overcome them to the point where you don't care anymore. I’m not there yet. It really forces you to be consistent

Learning how to socialize with  groups and relax in nightclubs and bars with groups. Dealing with groups of people, leading them, holding their attention, dealing with a person in the group who may not like you and similar obstacles. Doing whatever you can to pull the girl and not let obstacles get in the way. It forces you to get over any type of sexual repression. It completely changes the way you think and relate to women

It takes so much growth and discipline to get good at this. The few guys I’ve met who learned to be good with women definitely stand out from the average man. They seem so alive, so awake as a human being. The best guy that I know was able to use his skills to move in with a former tech startup CEO even though he had no prior business experience. He was able to learn about business from that guy

If pick up really is low conscious what am I missing? And what does it say about they women they sleep with?

[mr_engineer]

It's not pick-up itself that's low-consciousness, it's that the pick-up community right now is littered with unconscious individuals with shallow motivations. Most of them are players who only want to get laid, who don't want to commit to women. This is a selfish approach to dating and it causes women a lot of trauma. 

[Leo Gura]

The manipulation of people to maximize sexual opportunity is low consciousness.

Just in general, sex and everything revolving around sex is low consciousness. The reason that is, is because the only reason you care about sex at all is because it is mechanically coded in your animal nature. And as you pursue that sex you lose consciousness to attain it. You lie. You manipulate. You cheat. You hurt others. All for a few minutes of pleasure and excitement.

Have sex if you wish. Just notice what you're doing to get it.

But also, if you repress, deny, or neglect your sex drive, that could be even worse.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Consept]

I think it's a spectrum like with anything, there's low level pick up which would be using strategies and saying whatever you need to say to get sex from someone and then there's higher level which would be something like being authentic and building genuine connections with people. 

As an activity though where you're literally going out of your house to attempt to acquire sex that would probably be low consciousness. It's kinda like going out your house to try and convince people to give you money, probably worse even. 

[RightHand]

Feeling horny reflects a lower state of consciousness.

Feeling hungry indicates a lower state of consciousness.

Experiencing sensations of cold and heat signifies a lower state of consciousness.

Feeling tired is a sign of lower consciousness.

 

Being a skeletal mech encased in meat armor entails inevitable moments of lower consciousness.

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

And as you pursue that sex you lose consciousness to attain it. You lie. You manipulate. You cheat. You hurt others. All for a few minutes of pleasure and excitement.

Talking about personal experience here:

I understanding that some lying happens. I would maybe call it white-lies.

I understand that some manipulation / techniques happens, as in marketing and business too.

But cheating?

hurting others?

What do you mean by hurting? As in leading the girl to believe that you want something more serious, even tho you never intended to do so - just to get in her pants? I've never had to use such strategy. Perhaps a little bit in my first year of learning game, when I was still desperate.

I have also never cheated on anyone I've dated seriously.

In fact, I have been very clear on my intentions with the girls I have been seeing, and often speak openly about my feelings, vulnerabilities, and passions about philosophy and spirituality - while knowing full well that all of these acts can dramatically increase the chance of the girl getting the ick and stop seeing me.

Thanks to the abundance I've gotten from learning game, I don't mind the girls leaving me for me being honest, nearly as much as I would if I was in scarcity. What I'm saying is that I can be much more honest, vulnerable and authentic with my intentions with the girls - precisely because of the abundance I've gotten from the skillset of game.

Edited March 28 by Miguel1

[Yousif]

17 minutes ago, Consept said:

I think it's a spectrum like with anything, there's low level pick up which would be using strategies and saying whatever you need to say to get sex from someone and then there's higher level which would be something like being authentic and building genuine connections with people. 

 

Precisely why pick up is low consciousness, you wanna fuck and party, you don’t want long lasting genuine connections, 

but even with building a connection, a lot of times it’s for the wrong reasons, why do you want a good looking thick girl to build with rather then an ugly one?

I would go as far as to say that even most connections with people in general are low consciousness, why do you want to build connections, for sex, fame, status , and money which are associated with stage orange which is low consciousness.

 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

hurting others?

If you're having sex with dozens and hundreds of girls, you're def hurting some of them in that process.

Most PUAs are so selfish and unconscious that they don't even know when they hurt girls.

I'm not saying hurting is mandatory. I'm just saying it tends to come with the pursuit of sex.

Sex is a very corrupting force. Does that mean it is gauranteed to corrupt you? No.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Zen LaCroix]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

The manipulation of people to maximize sexual opportunity is low consciousness.

There is some manipulation involved but thats not the bread and butter of pick up. One could also argue what makes something manipulation vs persuasion?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Zen LaCroix said:

There is some manipulation involved

You guys are not yet aware of how much manipulation you do. It takes many years to understand it.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Consept]

6 minutes ago, Yousif said:

but even with building a connection, a lot of times it’s for the wrong reasons, why do you want a good looking thick girl to build with rather then an ugly one?

Physical attraction would be incorporated into the connection though, that would be part of a deeper connection. If you didn't like the girl on any level except physical then that's different that would be shallow. There maybe hot girls you meet that you don't think would work long term or don't have the depth and so you don't pursue. 

9 minutes ago, Yousif said:

would go as far as to say that even most connections with people in general are low consciousness, why do you want to build connections, for sex, fame, status , and money which are associated with stage orange which is low consciousness.

Again there is a low conscious version of that which you've outlined, which would be status climbing etc. But then there's also higher level where you learn about the other person and build a good connection with them. 

I started a practice in my life of just talking to more people, some you click with and some you don't but I'm not trying to get anything out of the relationships, I'm more just enjoying time with them. Even amongst people I don't think ordinary people are friends with each other because of money or status, most of the time they just like hanging out. Maybe in competitive industries and cities what you're saying happens more. 

[Zen LaCroix]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

It's not pick-up itself that's low-consciousness, it's that the pick-up community right now is littered with unconscious individuals with shallow motivations. Most of them are players who only want to get laid, who don't want to commit to women. This is a selfish approach to dating and it causes women a lot of trauma. 

You assume that women want commitment when a lot then want to sleep around and have some fun.  What do you think "hot girl summer" and "hoe phase" are referring too

[Consept]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're having sex with dozens and hundreds of girls, you've def hurting some of them in that process.

Most PUAs are so selfish and unconscious that they don't even know when they hurt girls.

I'm not saying hurting is mandatory. I'm just saying tends to come with the pursuit of sex.

That many girls then yeah, it's almost factory level. But in general if you're open and honest in a compassionate way, would you agree that is an ethical way of approaching it? 

At the end of the day there are many women who would appreciate the choice to be with you even if it is just short term 

[Miguel1]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're having sex with dozens and hundreds of girls, you're def hurting some of them in that process.

Most PUAs are so selfish and unconscious that they don't even know when they hurt girls.

I'm not saying hurting is mandatory. I'm just saying it tends to come with the pursuit of sex.

Yes, I understand.

As I've grown to understand myself and my personality (ENFJ) better, I am an extremely empathetic and feeling type of person.

Side note: I used to think that me being very feeling-type was a bad thing due to spiritual brainwashing. Thanks Leo for waking me up from that and too many other bullshit lol.

---

Don't get me wrong. I am not criticizing your thoughts. Quite the contrary: I am trying to be open-minded to my own possible devilry and bullshit (that I'm not seeing) in regards to dating. My own blindspots in other words.

As far as some girls catching feelings to me and being hurt (even tho I was open and honest about my intentions from the beginning), I would perhaps argue that this is something that just comes with it? Kinda like playing sports. You will likely eventually get injured. Or am I being a devil here?

I am trying my best to make my dating as conscious and healthy as possible. My life purpose is to be a healthy role model for people. Right now, especially in the more practical realm / stage orange / self-development / dating / money making etc. Later in spirituality as well.

Anyway, I would really appreciate if you and others give me pointers to think about possible ways I'm being unhealthy in regards to dating.

Edited March 28 by Miguel1

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Consept said:

That many girls then yeah, it's almost factory level. But in general if you're open and honest in a compassionate way, would you agree that is an ethical way of approaching it?

In this thread I'm not telling you how you should live your life, whether you should pursue sex or not.

I only explained the connection between sex and low consciousness.

You do whatever you want. You decide for yourself how ethical you wish to be.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Yousif]

15 minutes ago, Consept said:

I started a practice in my life of just talking to more people, some you click with and some you don't but I'm not trying to get anything out of the relationships, I'm more just enjoying time with them. Even amongst people I don't think ordinary people are friends with each other because of money or status, most of the time they just like hanging out. Maybe in competitive industries and cities what you're saying happens more. 

Yeah this is what it seem like on the surface but a lot of times it provides tremendous survival value, which is why most people hang around people that look like them or after the same things as them, there’s nothing wrong with any of this but high consciousness rarely exists in relationships, solitude is where it’s at,

a good video to watch for this would be the one by leo “ how socializing makes you stupid”

[Miguel1]

6 minutes ago, Yousif said:

Yeah this is what it seem like on the surface but a lot of times it provides tremendous survival value, which is why most people hang around people that look like them or after the same things as them, there’s nothing wrong with any of this but high consciousness rarely exists in relationships, solitude is where it’s at,

a good video to watch for this would be the one by leo “ how socializing makes you stupid”

Being a human being and alive is one big survival.

[Yousif]

4 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Being a human being and alive is one big survival.

Sure, that’s beside the point 

[Miguel1]

4 minutes ago, Yousif said:

Sure, that’s beside the point 

My point is that we gotta be careful of this idea of sitting in solitude in a cave doing nothing all day because we are so ''high conscious''.

If you want to be so high conscious, perhaps death is the answer for you. Paraphrasing Leo: ''We don't know what Infinite Consciousness is because we have called it death'' 

As far as being on Earth to live human lives... Then live it.

[mr_engineer]

35 minutes ago, Zen LaCroix said:

You assume that women want commitment when a lot then want to sleep around and have some fun.  What do you think "hot girl summer" and "hoe phase" are referring too

As I said, in theory, there is a way to do pick-up ethically and there is nothing fundamentally unethical about pick-up. In practice, though, the big thing driving PUAs is insecurity about their attractiveness, which they try to cover up by building a body-count. The whole body-count thing is an ego-boost for PUAs and using women as a tool for this ego-pursuit is definitely unethical.