Realizing Reality

[Vajra]

Let me clarify it even more.

The contemplation here IS NOT: "What is God-Realization?" or "What is God?"

It IS: "How can we tell if a person who is speaking about God-Realization is speaking only from memory, what he read, what he heard... or from, through, and as God-Realization?"

We are dancing around it. Playing around. Not answering the question.

It seems like nobody here has the answer.

[Davino]

45 minutes ago, Vajra said:

I am not asking - prove to me God.

I am asking - prove to me that you are God-Realized.

It doesn't work like that, not even in the relative domain let alone in the absolute.

How would you know if a painting is a real Picasso or just Art forgery?

If you yourself are not an Art expert with decades of painting experience?

This is why I told you to realize God first because then you will at least have a chance to recognise God-Realization in others. 

 

[Javfly33]

32 minutes ago, Vajra said:

But would you say that some people come to this Realization that you just described and some not?

 

Yup. Most of them do not come to that realization. 

 

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The masses on the street... are they conscious of this?

No. Most of them no. 

 

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Is there any difference between these individuals and you?

It might be in the sense that their ego might still think is real. Whether here it has been seen ego is not real. 

 

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If not... well then, maybe you are not God-Realized. Or are in some other way. Or it's some kind of another thing

It´s tricky and is understandable that you are confused.

 

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to somehow tell me how I can know that you really are not experiencing yourself as that separate self.

I can not prove it to you because Realization is direct. You have to grasp yourself. 

[Salvijus]

26 minutes ago, Vajra said:

It IS: "How can we tell if a person who is speaking about God-Realization is speaking only from memory, what he read, what he heard... or from, through, and as God-Realization?"

The same way you can tell if milk has gone bad or not. By taste. 

If something tastes like ego, then it's not god. 

Unless somebody would invent enlight-o-meter. 

Edited March 27 by Salvijus

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.

- Louis Armstrong-

[Arthogaan]

7 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.

-

https://youtu.be/rVoRX1nMNg4?si=n-p23X1LmItlpjY_

 

I imagine walter saying "This" instead.

 

 

Edited March 27 by Arthogaan

[Davino]

1 minute ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.

- Louis Armstrong-

I love it! Indeed a very jazzy quote

[Vajra]

55 minutes ago, Davino said:

This is why I told you to realize God first because then you will at least have a chance to recognise God-Realization in others. 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I can not prove it to you because Realization is direct. You have to grasp yourself. 

 

44 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

If something tastes like ego, then it's not god. 

 

Ok, so we have a few things here.

Davino is saying that it CAN be proven whether someone is God-Realized or not but in order for it to be proven to me, I myself have to be God-Realized. In other words, one's God-Realization can be proven only to another God-Realized individual. OK.

Javfly33 is saying that it's not possible to prove that an individual is God-Realized.

Salvijus is saying that we can prove it through something he calls "taste".

 

Wow, we got a lot of opinions here. Can we come to some consensus? Who's telling the truth?


(Aaand of course @Bazooka Jesus and @Arthogaan and @Davino are joking around  also something...  YEP )

Edited March 27 by Vajra

[Vajra]

And btw, I'll say it again, cause you guys are constantly implying it.

I did not say I'm not God-Realized.

I'm simply inquiring as to this:

1 hour ago, Vajra said:

"How can we tell if a person who is speaking about God-Realization is speaking only from memory, what he read, what he heard... or from, through, and as God-Realization?"

Don't assume!

[Davino]

2 minutes ago, Vajra said:

Davino is saying that it CAN be proven whether someone is God-Realized or not but in order for it to be proven to me, I myself have to be God-Realized. In other words, one's God-Realization can be proven only to another God-Realized individual. OK.

No, I said that now you at least have a chance. Because before you didn't even have a chance, you are clueless about what God-Realization is. Be honest about that, till you have it you don't know it.

55 minutes ago, Davino said:

This is why I told you to realize God first because then you will at least have a chance to recognise God-Realization in others. 

 

[Vajra]

@Davino OK, then for somebody to prove that an individual is God-Realized:

a) the receiver has to be God-Realized also

b) there might be more requirements

cool. What are the other requirements?

[Arthogaan]

Nothing ever can be proven.

The only thing that is sure is perception itself.

[Davino]

Just now, Vajra said:

What are the other requirements?

You can't never know. But if you don't even know it yourself, then for sure it is impossible.

You can intuit it. It's easier to say someone is not God-Realized than to say it actually is. 

[Vajra]

1 minute ago, Arthogaan said:

Nothing ever can be proven.

The only thing that is sure is perception itself.

You can pretty easily prove which individual is a man and which is a woman (not considering the LGBTQ circumstances now).

1 minute ago, Davino said:

You can't never know. But if you don't even know it yourself, then for sure it is impossible.

You can intuit it. It's easier to say someone is not God-Realized than to say it actually is. 

Ok, so... you don't know. You don't know how to prove if someone is God-Realized or not. Yes?

[Davino]

1 minute ago, Vajra said:

Ok, so... you don't know. You don't know how to prove if someone is God-Realized or not. Yes?

It's not that I don't how to, it is that there is no How to bullet proof way beyond any error. You can't even make your mother prove her own independent existent. Please tell me how to prove that?

God-Realization is beyond such limitations that you are constricting it into, if you actually experienced God this desire would simply vanish into your infinite Awakeness.

[Vajra]

1 minute ago, Davino said:

It's not that I don't how to, it is that there is no How to bullet proof way beyond any error. You can't even make your mother prove her own independent existent. Please tell me how to prove that?

God-Realization is beyond such limitations that you are constricting it into, if you actually experienced God this desire would simply vanish into your infinite Awakeness.

So you are saying that you do know that there is no way to do it.

Ok, interesting.

You are also saying that my desire to know is .... basically ignorance. Don't see why. Can't a God-Realized being be curious, wanting to discover new things, love life?

[Vajra]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Take it as a trust test of Love from 'God'.

Here are some weirdos in a forum telling you Reality is Boundless Love but you want 'proof'. That tells you your faith is low. Faith is not enough to awaken, but a little intuition that you might be something more than your body or your personal life must be there in order for you to walk the path.

 

10 minutes ago, Davino said:

You can intuit it.

These are interesting comments. It would imply that somehow you can "intuit" who is God-Realized or not.

This seems to be coming closer.

But you must admit that being able to intuit it is very vague — no real clarity or understanding or realizing how that works there.

Just a tid-bit.

[Davino]

2 minutes ago, Vajra said:

So you are saying that you do know that there is no way to do it.

Ok, interesting.

Exactly. Not withh 100% certainty at least.

2 minutes ago, Vajra said:

You are also saying that my desire to know is .... basically ignorance. Don't see why.

Didn't say that, just pointing out the difference in state between humand and God/Infinity.

What will you do when you are in the Moon? Maybe when your feet touch the moon you are so shocked that everything you thought previously flies out the window and you are marvelled by the experience you are having.

4 minutes ago, Vajra said:

Can't a God-Realized being be curious, wanting to discover new things, love life?

Surely, nurture that by all means.

[Vajra]

Just now, Davino said:

Exactly. Not withh 100% certainty at least.

5 minutes ago, Vajra said:

Cool, so you don't know for sure. That's humility. That opens the door to real investigation, doesn't it?

1 minute ago, Davino said:

Didn't say that, just pointing out the difference in state between humand and God/Infinity.

What will you do when you are in the Moon? Maybe when your feet touch the moon you are so shocked that everything you thought previously flies out the window and you are marvelled by the experience you are having.

But it's not always like that, is it? You come down from the highs. You are able to speak to me now, you are not so drowning in God-Realization that this possibility is not here. If we are able to speak, we are probably able to investigate interesting topics — such as how do we discover if someone is Truly God-Realized, or just lying or deluded.

3 minutes ago, Davino said:

Surely, nurture that by all means.

[Davino]

2 minutes ago, Vajra said:

But you must admit that being able to intuit it is very vague — no real clarity or understanding or realizing how that works there.

Yeah, I shamelessly admit it! 

It's like @Salvijus said, it just doesn't have good taste. But it's very vague and not by any means perfect. 

If it tastes very gross you are pretty sure that is not God-Realization. But sounding good does not imply it is the case, hopefully this is clear.

Again, intuition works better for discarding than for crediting.