Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[Yousif]

@OBEler

Edited March 28 by Yousif

[OBEler]

13 minutes ago, mmKay said:

@OBEler It's not an oversimplification, it's a congruent elaboration of the trajectory of Nazi ideology. It doesn't matter that Hitler himself wasn't blonde with blue eyes.

Absolute logical coherence is not a requisite for ideology and close-mindedness.

Even if not historically  accurate, the movies and videogames are congruent with the ideology. Again, it doesn't matter that the absolute extreme or his ideology didn't manage to happen. It was clearly headed in that direction . So the movies and videogames are valid

Omg here we are. Brainwashed by call of duty games. That's the proof I am talking about! Can anyone else here see what I see? Please don't be shy, you will not be on the Nazi side.

[Bobby_2021]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Fascism and nationalism are right-wing and conservative.

Putin and Kim Jong are nationalists.

So are they right wing? 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Putin and Kim Jong are nationalists.

So are they right wing? 

Of course.

[mmKay]

17 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Omg here we are. Brainwashed by call of duty games. That's the proof I am talking about! Can anyone else here see what I see? Please don't be shy, you will not be on the Nazi side.

Investigating and exploring all alternative scenarios is absolutely valid . You learn from what happened, but also from what could happen but didn't .

Yes it's not historically accurate because it didn't happen exactly that way and to that degree. But it could have because it is congruent with the ideology . 

Saying we are " brainwashed" by movies and games is downplaying the atrocities of Nazism.

The risks are in not taking seriously enough the dangers of Nazism, not in being too closedminded about it

You can plow chatgpt for hours about the upsides of Nazi Germany. That doesn't excuse the atrocities 

Videogames and movies are valid real possible spin offs and ramifications of elaborating along the lines of the real actual Nazi ideology .

Edited March 28 by mmKay

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You know how leftists won the propaganda war when terms like fascism apply exclusively to the right wing.

Fascism is fairly specific thing and has a pretty specific academic definition.

Here's how Wikipedia defines Fascism:

"Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum."

Really, the two clear examples of Fascism are Nazi Germany and Mussolini's Italy. Beyond those two the notion starts to get stretched.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Yousif right wing is a broad definition which include nationalism, fascism, conservative.

But there are differences between these 3. So you can say that conservative is right wing and fascism is right wing, but not fascism is conservative, even if both are right wing.

 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, OBEler said:

but not fascism is conservative

Conservative is a much broader notion than Fascism.

Brains are wired to be more conservative or more liberal. This wiring then guides one's political inclinations.

For example, the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden, and Quakers are very conservative, even though they don't fit into your narrow definitions of what a Western conservative is.

Conservative minds have existed since the dawn of mankind, in every part of the world, in every era. This conservative attitude then manifests itself in a thousand ways depending on the specific circumstance of the era and part of the world.

Nazis have conservative minds and brains. That's the fundamental insight that is being missed and that I am pointing to.

You should watch my videos:

• Understanding The Conservative Mind
• Understanding The Liberal Mind

I explained it all there.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Alexop]

17 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Nope. Fascism and nationalism are Right-wing, but Not conservative.

You can ask your woke Claude if you need to help to understand.

conservatism has its own unique characteristics and values. 

Man, conservative relative to what? We are talking about HItler being a conservative relative to the way the world was ruled for thousands of years, with cruelty, racism, slavery and autocracy. His mindset was so extremely conservative that even conservatives of that time might look progressive in contrast. Use spiral dynamics to understand it, these are just word games and redefining terms.

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Ask ChatGPT for scientific studies on the difference between liberal and conservative brains, and then ask it to correlate which brain type would find Nazism/Fascism more appealing.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Conservative is a much broader notion than Fascism.

Brains are wired to be more conservative or more liberal. This wiring then guides one's political inclinations.

For example, the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden are very conservative.

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@OBEler Ask ChatGPT for scientific studies on the difference between liberal and conservative brains, and then ask it to correlate which brain type would find Nazism/Fascism more appealing.

 

ChatGPT 4: 

Research has explored psychological and neurological differences between individuals with liberal and conservative political orientations. Some studies suggest that these differences might extend to various cognitive, emotional, and neurological domains. For instance, research published in scientific journals such as "Current Biology" and "Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience" has highlighted distinctions in areas like response to threats, openness to new experiences, and cognitive flexibility.

However, correlating these findings directly with the appeal of ideologies like Nazism or Fascism is highly complex and contentious. Nazism and Fascism are specific historical and political ideologies that emerged from particular social, economic, and historical contexts. The appeal of such ideologies can be influenced by a multitude of factors beyond individual psychological or neurological predispositions, including social, economic, and cultural conditions.

It's essential to approach the question with caution, as attributing complex social phenomena like the appeal of Fascism or Nazism to neurological or psychological predispositions alone can be overly simplistic and potentially misleading. Additionally, it's crucial to consider the ethical implications of attempting to link political beliefs or ideologies directly to brain structure or function.

Research in political psychology continues to evolve, and while it offers intriguing insights into how individuals might process information and make political judgments, the relationship between these psychological or neurological differences and the appeal of specific political ideologies remains a topic of ongoing investigation and debate.

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Ironically, ChatGPT is so woke it's too careful to give you a meaningful answer.

There ARE clear correlations there which ChatGPT is too shy to connect the dots for you.

I connected those dots for you in my 2 videos.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[mmKay]

At this point just automatize Chatgpt to argue for both sides, and have another AI decide who wins

Jokes aside,it would be fascinating to have AI debate itself for 1000 hours about some topic and give you all the highlights

Edited March 28 by mmKay

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura then ask Claude 3 this question if it's more truthful 

Meanwhile I will watch your videos to this topic because they were great ones.

I know there is something going on with the brain structure and your political view but from what I know Nazis don't fit into this. They were driven by higher forces.

Edited March 28 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura then ask Claude 3 this question if it's more truthful 

Frankly I don't know if it's more truthful.

Remember, AI's are still not as intelligent as me

And you have to know how to ask it the right questions.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, mmKay said:

At this point just automatize Chatgpt to argue for both sides

Begun the AI wars have.

[Bobby_2021]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course.

Nice joke.

You are telling me a that a country like Russia ignored all their communist left wing history to elect a right wing leader.

That's the most progressive and bold move you can think of. They are not interested in conserving their past it seems since they changed their entire politics from far left to far right. 

So either they are not conservative right wing, or they don't have a communist left wing past they need to preserve. 

Your logic eats itself.

Are going to admit that Russia had a right wing past? 

Because conservatives has to conserve the past. That's the essence of conservatism.

Big surprise, left wing can also be conservative. It's human nature to want to conserve the past. 

Which is why I say that conservatism/liberalism isn't a left or right thing. 

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You are telling me a that a country like Russia ignored all their communist left wing history to elect a right wing leader.

I already explained this earlier in this thread.

Soviet Russia was deeply under-developed and oppressed by the conservative Tsarist regime. Then their heads were filled with liberal, progressive ideas from Western Europe, including Marxism. Some of those early Soviet revolutionaries were truly leftist, liberal, and progressive. However, as the revolution raged on all the bleeding heart liberals were killed or kicked out from power, until Lenin and Stalin, both shameless and immoral egotists, grabbed power for themselves at the cost of everyone else. They created a twisted self-serving ideology which was progressive in its ideals, but actually right-wing authoritarian in its execution. Fidel Castro did the same thing. He spoke highly of democratic populist ideas, but in practice he ruled like a right-wing authoritarian. Fidel Castro personally oversaw drug smuggling operations to fuel his bank account, even though he denied all this publicly. Stalin was a bank-robber.

Because Communist nations were so under-developed, even if the leaders professed liberal or progressive ideals, in practice they had to resort to criminal domination in order to hold power. This rendered their progressivism moot. Just window-dressing. Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Castro.... these people were incapable of being liberal or progressive regardless of what they said publicly. They said a bunch of liberal things publicly in order to gain and hold power because the mood of the people was to overthrow oppressive capitalist or monarchist regimes.

Here's another claim for you: Monarchists were conservative. Before Fascism, there were monarchies. And the people who overthrew monarchs were liberals. The terms "left" and "right" come to us from the French Revolution. The right were the conservative monarchists while the left were the democratic liberals who cut off the heads of kings.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Here you go:

Question: "There are scientific studies which measure differences between the liberal and conservative mind and/or brain. Can you summarize some of those differences and tell me which type of mind/brain would find Nazism most appealing?"

Claude 3:

Quote

"There have been several studies that have attempted to identify neurological and psychological differences between liberal and conservative individuals. However, it's important to note that these studies often deal with averages and tendencies, and there is significant overlap and variation within each group. With that said, here are some of the key findings:

• Fear and Threat Response: Several studies have found that conservatives tend to have a heightened sensitivity to potential threats and dangers, which may be linked to increased activity in the amygdala (the brain's fear center). Liberals, on the other hand, tend to be less sensitive to potential threats.
• Cognitive Style: Conservatives have been found to prefer more structured, persistent, and inflexible cognitive styles, while liberals tend to be more open to new experiences and ambiguity.
• Moral Foundations: Research suggests that conservatives tend to value moral foundations like loyalty, authority, and purity more strongly, while liberals place greater emphasis on harm prevention and fairness.
• Personality Traits: Conservatives tend to score higher on traits like orderliness, conscientiousness, and need for closure, while liberals tend to score higher on openness to experience.
• Brain Structure: Some studies have found differences in brain structure between liberals and conservatives, such as increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex (involved in decision-making) among conservatives.

Based on these findings, it can be argued that individuals with a more conservative cognitive style, heightened fear response, and stronger emphasis on loyalty, authority, and purity might be more susceptible to the appeal of authoritarian and nationalist ideologies like Nazism.

Nazism's emphasis on strong leadership, racial purity, and "us vs. them" mentality could resonate more strongly with individuals who have a higher need for order, in-group loyalty, and sensitivity to perceived threats from outsiders.

However, it's crucial to emphasize that these are tendencies, and many other factors, such as education, personal experiences, and social influences, also play a significant role in shaping one's political and ideological beliefs. Additionally, the vast majority of conservatives would reject the extreme, racist, and totalitarian principles of Nazism.

Ultimately, while these studies provide insights into potential psychological and neurological differences, they should not be used to stereotype or generalize entire groups of people."

Looks like Claude 3 is superior to ChatGPT.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura @Leo Gura

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

I read your blog post. I got goose bumps by how intelligent this new Claudia 3 responded. It's less restricted than ChatGPT 4 and is even more nuanced for sure.Absolutely amazing! 

So in todays world you don't need  to figure out the right answers anymore, just know how to ask the right questions.

 

 

Edited March 28 by OBEler