Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[Schizophonia]

22 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Schizophonia

   Guilty by association.😔

sniff

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@OBEler  My solution to correct these distortions for example is to tell others to read more history books, documentaries, and biographies, even go read some wikipedia and other sources. I even consume a wide variety of sources, and minimize intaking garbage information.

You can correct these distortions by yourself with a lot of research but if you are addressing the maker of call of duty etc they are only interested in good sales figures. And the version of the common Nazis as for example in inglorious bastards with this narcistic sadistic and sarcastic behavior sells good.

[Inliytened1]

@OBEler you're correct - Hitler's stance was highly biological - if you weren't born blond haired and blue eyed you should be eradicated from the earth.  Only the finest and fittest shall endure!!

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

19 minutes ago, OBEler said:

You can correct these distortions by yourself with a lot of research but if you are addressing the maker of call of duty etc they are only interested in good sales figures. And the version of the common Nazis as for example in inglorious bastards with this narcistic sadistic and sarcastic behavior sells good.

   Well in that case if it's the game devs from hyper capitalist game industry that made Call of Duty, and Hollywood directors who made inglorious Bastards, maybe a union, a strike and economic boycott might work if they're more interested in profits. But good luck trying to recruit for those unions, a strike or economic boycotts because who wants to be seen advocating or supporting correction of Nazi Germans right?

[OBEler]

27 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@OBEler you're correct - Hitler's stance was highly biological - if you weren't born blond haired and blue eyed you should be eradicated from the earth.  Only the finest and fittest shall endure!!

27 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@OBEler  if you weren't born blond haired and blue eyed you should be eradicated from the earth.

This  claim had not even the most radical Nazi in his mind. This is exaggerated. But I think you didn't mean that so seriously. But some people here could think Nazis really thought so radical.

[Danioover9000]

   I forgot we even have a thread about the Nazi mind. There you go:

 

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, OBEler said:

This  claim had not even the most radical Nazi in his mind. This is exaggerated. But I think you didn't mean that so seriously. But some people here could think Nazis really thought so radical.

Are you serious? One doesn't need to read Mein Kampf to know this guy was a fanatic.  But perhaps you should.   Perhaps both of you should.  

 

 

 

Edited March 28 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Hitler didn't kill liberals- he killed anyone who wasn't blonde haired and blued eyed - and a Nazi - namely the Jews.

That's what extreme nationalists do.

Why do conservatives in America wanna deport the browns?

Hitler considered Jews to be liberals, Marxists, Communists, and globalists. Jews were the source of the liberalism he opposed, both in ideology but also in physical form. The Jews were the embodiment of everything that was corrupting the purity of German tradition, blood, and soil.

American conservatives believe that hispanics and gays are corrupting the purity of white America.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

6 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Are you serious? One doesn't need to read Mein Kampf to know this guy was a fanatic.  But perhaps you should.   Perhaps both of you should.  

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@OBEler you're correct - Hitler's stance was highly biological - if you weren't born blond haired and blue eyed you should be eradicated from the earth.  Only the finest and fittest shall endure!!

11 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@OBEler  if you weren't born blond haired and blue eyed you should be eradicated from the earth.

 

Ok enough, Please provide me with a source. This is absolute nonsense! And don't link Just to the book mein Kampf. Give me the exact line that people who don't have specific eye or hair color should be eliminated. That would even include non-jews.

Crazy how call of duty or Wolfenstein games have brainwashed you. You are lost in phantasy and that's exactly why I need to discuss with you here to help you get back.

 

 

Edited March 28 by OBEler

[mmKay]

On 27/3/2024 at 11:28 PM, Inliytened1 said:

@OBEler you're correct - Hitler's stance was highly biological - if you weren't born blond haired and blue eyed you should be eradicated from the earth.  Only the finest and fittest shall endure!!

@OBEler

It is not historically accurate, but it is definitely not nonsense.

Yes, that was the ideology of the superiority of the Aryan race. In actual reality he didn't get to follow through on the extreme version of his vision of killing anyone who wasn't blonde with blue eyes. It was simply logistically not possible in his lifetime.

Do not doubt, if he had the opportunity he would have done it. Even you yourself are startled at the idea: " that would even mean non Jews! "

Sadly for him, he only managed to implement racial hierarchy systems , indoctrination and propaganda of the superiority of the Aryan race, racial hygiene policies and selective breeding programs , which is only just a few steps towards that extreme

You're downplaying the severity of this by  saying " well but he didn't actually kill people if they weren't blonde with blue eyes"

It is absolutely clear he would resort to those means if given the opportunity. His speeches were filled with extreme racial ideology , propaganda of the superiority of the Aryan race, literally pushing the idea of  the need to " eliminate inferior races", and his "Lebensraum" concept , of making living space for the superior Nazi population 

You can put two and two together

-----

What you're fighting against here is that the games and the movies are not  historically factual and accurate.

But what you're missing is that they are absolutely congruent with the Nazi ideology , and therefore valid, plausible ideas and creative spin offs. 

 

What are you defending? The accuracy of the history books? I'm really trying to understand here

It's more important to understand the possible ramifications of such an extreme ideology than what actually only managed to happen .

 

If a terrorist attack hijacks a single airplane that kills 300 people, you seriously contemplate all causes, ramifications and the ripple effect of the tragedy.

Hitler killed 60.000 times more people than this fictional terrorist attack 

Investigating and exploring all alternative scenarios is absolutely valid . You learn from what happened, but also from what could happen but didn't 

 

 

Edited March 29 by mmKay

[Leo Gura]

I asked the Claude 3 Sonnet AI about this issue. Here's what it said:

My Question:

Quote

Is Nazism a liberal or conservative ideology?

Claude 3 Response:

Quote

Nazism, also known as National Socialism, was a far-right, ultranationalist, racist, and anti-Semitic ideology that was promoted by the Nazi Party in Germany. It was a totalitarian and authoritarian form of government that strictly controlled nearly all aspects of society.

Nazism is generally considered to be on the extreme far-right of the political spectrum, opposite of liberal ideologies. Some of the core tenets and practices of Nazism that place it firmly in opposition to liberal values include:

• Extreme nationalism and militarism
• Belief in racial hierarchy and racial supremacy (Aryan master race)
• Extreme antisemitism and persecution of Jewish people
• Suppression of democracy, civil liberties and political opposition
• Totalitarian control of society, economy and culture
• Promotion of traditionalist gender roles and opposition to feminism
• Hostility towards liberalism, socialism, and communism

While the Nazis did implement some socialistic economic policies early on, these were outweighed by their staunchly anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian, and racist principles that were in direct conflict with liberal values of individual rights, equality, and democratic pluralism.

Most mainstream historians, political scientists, and other experts agree that Nazism was an extreme far-right reactionary ideology that arose in opposition to liberal democracy, egalitarianism, and civil rights. It represented a totalitarian form of conservative racial-nationalism focused on purification of the Aryan race.

So in summary, while the Nazis adopted some superficial socialist-style policies, Nazism as a whole is considered an illiberal, conservative, far-right, and brutally totalitarian ideology that was antithetical to liberal democratic values. It was not a liberal political ideology by any measure.

But I guess Clause 3 is too woke.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

14 minutes ago, mmKay said:

@OBEler

It is not historically accurate, but it is definitely not nonsense.

Yes, that was the ideology of the superiority of the Aryan race. In actual reality he didn't get to follow through on the extreme version of his vision of killing anyone who wasn't blonde with blue eyes. It was simply logistically not possible in his lifetime.

Do not doubt, if he had the opportunity he would have done it. Even you yourself are startled at the idea: " that would even mean non Jews! "

Sadly for him, he only managed to implement racial hierarchy systems , indoctrination and propaganda of the superiority of the Aryan race, racial hygiene policies and selective breeding programs , which is only just a few steps towards that extreme

You're downplaying the severity of this by  saying " well but he didn't actually kill people if they weren't blonde with blue eyes"

It is absolutely clear he would resort to those means if given the opportunity. His speeches were filled with extreme racial ideology , propaganda of the superiority of the Aryan race, literally pushing the idea of  the need to " eliminate inferior races", and his "Lebensraum" concept , of making living space for the superior Nazi population 

You can put two and two together

-----

What you're fighting against here is that the games and the movies are not  historically factual and accurate.

But what you're missing is that they are absolutely congruent with the Nazi ideology , and therefore valid, plausible ideas and creative spin offs. 

 

What are you defending? The accuracy of the history books? I'm really trying to understand here

It's more important to understand the possible ramifications of such an extreme ideology than what actually only managed to happen .

 

If a terrorist attack hijacks a single airplane that kills 300 people, you seriously contemplate all causes, ramifications and the ripple effect of the tragedy.

Hitler killed 60000 times more people than this theoretical terrorist attack 

Investigating and exploring all alternative scenarios is absolutely valid . You learn from what happened, but also from what could happen but didn't 

 

 

 

 

Careful, even if it can go in this absurd grotesk direction it is an oversimplification of this ideology. That's far from truth so why spreading this ? Do you want to frame Nazis as extra radical? My question is why do you prefer this version beyond accurate historical facts?

And please think for yourself, Hitler and all other Nazi leaders, none of them were both blond and had blue eyes.

It's really nonsense. Nazis would need to kill the whole planet. 6 billion people including 80 % of their own people. 

 

[OBEler]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I asked the Claude 3 Sonnet AI about this issue. Here's what it said:

My Question:

Claude 3 Response:

But I guess Clause 3 is too woke.

It didn't say clearly that it was conservative.just that it was NOT liberal.

Please refer to Nazism in Hitler Germany because today's Nazism is different.

I asked the same question chatgpt4 with reference to Hitler Germany.

"Nazism, as embodied by Adolf Hitler's regime in Germany, is neither liberal nor conservative in the terms commonly used in contemporary political discourse, especially if we consider the broad and often differing definitions of liberalism and conservatism across different countries and historical periods. Instead, Nazism, or National Socialism, is classified as a far-right, totalitarian, and fascist ideology.

Key characteristics of Nazism include extreme nationalism, racial supremacy, the promotion of racial purity, anti-Semitism, anti-communism, the rejection of democracy, and the belief in the need for a dictatorial leader. The Nazi movement sought radical change, aiming to completely overhaul the existing social, political, and economic order to establish a totalitarian state that emphasized racial hierarchy, militarism, and territorial expansion.

In contrast, traditional conservatism generally seeks to preserve social institutions and values, emphasizing stability, tradition, and a gradual approach to change. Contemporary liberalism, particularly in the Western context, champions individual rights, equality, democracy, and often a degree of social and economic intervention by the state to address inequalities.

Therefore, categorizing Nazism within the conventional liberal-conservative spectrum is misleading. The essence of Nazi ideology is fundamentally at odds with the principles of both liberalism and conservatism as understood in modern political contexts. Nazism represents an extreme, authoritarian form of fascist nationalism that defies placement on the standard left-right political spectrum, where liberalism and conservatism typically reside."

Edited March 28 by OBEler

[Bobby_2021]

Quote

was hitler conservative or liberal? 

Adolf Hitler's political views were neither conservative nor liberal in the traditional sense. Hitler and the Nazi Party promoted a form of far-right politics with elements of ethnic nationalism, anti-Semitism, and authoritarianism[3][5]. While some aspects of Nazi ideology, such as social conservatism and rejection of liberal democracy, align with conservative views, Hitler's regime was fundamentally totalitarian and dictatorial, not adhering to traditional conservative principles[3]. Hitler's ideology was a unique blend of extreme nationalism, racism, and anti-communism, which deviated significantly from both liberal and conservative ideologies[2][3]. Therefore, it is more accurate to characterize Hitler as a far-right authoritarian figure rather than fitting neatly into the categories of conservative or liberal.

Citations:
[1] Nazism - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
[2] Adolf Hitler - Nazi Leader, WW2, Germany | Britannica https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Hitler/Rise-to-power
[3] Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
[4] Adolf Hitler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
[5] Hitler Comes to Power: How, When, & Key Dates | Holocaust Encyclopedia https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/hitler-comes-to-power
 

Perplexity AI, not sure what's the exact model, has this to say. 

Just that it aligns with conservative values and visions. 

Edited March 28 by Bobby_2021

[mmKay]

@OBEler It's not an oversimplification, it's a congruent elaboration of the trajectory of Nazi ideology. It doesn't matter that Hitler himself wasn't blonde with blue eyes.

Absolute logical coherence is not a requisite for ideology and close-mindedness.

Even if not historically  accurate, the movies and videogames are congruent with the ideology. Again, it doesn't matter that the absolute extreme or his ideology didn't manage to happen. It was clearly headed in that direction . So the movies and videogames are valid

 

Yes, they would salivate at the idea of killing 6 billion people in the sake of racial purity  including 80% of their own people to make an ultra pure race

That sounds like a Nazi wet dream 

What are you defending? It sounds like you are cherry picking the noble parts of Nazism and downplaying the atrocities 

Edited March 28 by mmKay

[Alexop]

On 3/26/2024 at 0:05 PM, OBEler said:

Hitler was not conservative. You probably consumed propaganda. Just hear original Hitler speeches like this one

 

Hitler said you should have respect of the past but you should not identify with it (big difference !!). You should respect their achievements but that should not mean that what they did is still good.

Hitler said, It is good to build up from ancestors achievements but then put your own will into it. So just copy what the ancestors did is utterly stupid.

A conservative would never said that.

Hitler: Nationalsocialism is based on biological insights and not on ancient tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Words are just words, what he did is just to create basic stage red-blue ideological state. Is North Korea pregressive? Because progressive is the opposite of conservative. An egomaniac is conservative by nature, he conserves the egotistical beliefs and behaviours that hauted the past for thosuands of years, read history and you'll see that what he did is nothing new.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, OBEler said:

"Nazism represents an extreme, authoritarian form of fascist nationalism that defies placement on the standard left-right political spectrum, where liberalism and conservatism typically reside."

Fascism and nationalism are right-wing and conservative. So this statement contradicts itself and your own prior admission that Nazism is right-wing.

Right-wing means conservative. Stop playing games.

Nazism is also illiberal. Don't overlook that basic point.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

It didn't say clearly that it was conservative.just that it was NOT liberal.

Please refer to Nazism in Hitler Germany because today's Nazism is different.

I asked the same question chatgpt4 with reference to Hitler Germany.

"Nazism, as embodied by Adolf Hitler's regime in Germany, is neither liberal nor conservative in the terms commonly used in contemporary political discourse, especially if we consider the broad and often differing definitions of liberalism and conservatism across different countries and historical periods. Instead, Nazism, or National Socialism, is classified as a far-right, totalitarian, and fascist ideology.

Key characteristics of Nazism include extreme nationalism, racial supremacy, the promotion of racial purity, anti-Semitism, anti-communism, the rejection of democracy, and the belief in the need for a dictatorial leader. The Nazi movement sought radical change, aiming to completely overhaul the existing social, political, and economic order to establish a totalitarian state that emphasized racial hierarchy, militarism, and territorial expansion.

In contrast, traditional conservatism generally seeks to preserve social institutions and values, emphasizing stability, tradition, and a gradual approach to change. Contemporary liberalism, particularly in the Western context, champions individual rights, equality, democracy, and often a degree of social and economic intervention by the state to address inequalities.

Therefore, categorizing Nazism within the conventional liberal-conservative spectrum is misleading. The essence of Nazi ideology is fundamentally at odds with the principles of both liberalism and conservatism as understood in modern political contexts. Nazism represents an extreme, authoritarian form of fascist nationalism that defies placement on the standard left-right political spectrum, where liberalism and conservatism typically reside."

   I think I understand where you're coming from. This like when I and few others had to deal with people hating on GB for no reason, white guilt us and say my country is king colonialism controlling a third of the world and how we're all racists and enable slavery. Then I have to point out that actually GB ended slavery and is anti slavery for 1,000 years, having to fight off the Arab slave trade in Africa, and even imposed economic sanctions on countries that had slavery business going on.

 

[OBEler]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Fascism and nationalism are right-wing and conservative.

Nope. Fascism and nationalism are Right-wing, but Not conservative.

You can ask your woke Claude if you need to help to understand.

conservatism has its own unique characteristics and values. 

[Bobby_2021]

You know how leftists won the propaganda war when terms like fascism apply exclusively to the right wing.

Countries like China, Russia, North Korea are ruled by left wing ideology but they are not fascists. Lmao.

There isn't just enough terms to articulate left wing dogma/cruelty. Right need to find new words.