Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[OBEler]

Hitler was not conservative. You probably consumed propaganda. Just hear original Hitler speeches like this one

 

Hitler said you should have respect of the past but you should not identify with it (big difference !!). You should respect their achievements but that should not mean that what they did is still good.

Hitler said, It is good to build up from ancestors achievements but then put your own will into it. So just copy what the ancestors did is utterly stupid.

A conservative would never said that.

Hitler: Nationalsocialism is based on biological insights and not on ancient tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26 by OBEler

[Sucuk Ekmek]

Huh, 3rd Reich was against modernist art. In fact called it "degenerate art". They did sell conservatism.

[Leo Gura]

What you have to understand is that the far-right mind is full of shit. It talks out of both sides of its mouth. It's not an internally coherent intellectual system. It's a loose network of fears, hatreds, disgust, dogma, myths, and rationalizations.

As I said, if you go far-right far enough you overturn your own traditions. This is not a mistake in my analysis. A far-right Islamic fundamentalist does not truly observe the tradition of Islam.

Hitler was above all an ego-maniac like Trump. So of course he wanted to put his own stamp on things. It takes humility to blindly follow tradition as Mike Pence does.

All you have to do to see that Nazism is conservative is to look at the kind of people who find it appealing, and the type of people Nazis consider their enemies.

Who finds it appealing?

Conservatives!

Who are it enemies? Who did Hitler kill?

Liberals!

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura

It's not accurate to reduce the complex dynamics of Nazi appeal and enmity to simple contemporary political labels like "conservatives" and "liberals." The Nazis drew support from various segments of German society at the time, especially the intellectual elite, scientists. They all were 100% in it.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, OBEler said:

especially the intellectual elite, scientists

Many conservatives among that bunch. Especially 100 years ago. Especially when you felt your nation was shafted by the settlement of WW1.

Many Germans were just pissed off and looking for scapegoats.

You have some weird views on Nazis from what I recall.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

Yeah I can understand that you see that as weird, because you heard probably otherwise in these propaganda docus on YouTube. You know I am from Germany and am not so much influenced from propaganda like other nations about Hitler because I can understand Hitlers speeches directly without any historican in between who doesn't know german culture, doesn't understand German language and who needs to fulfill the victory story.

To call Nazis as conservative is still wrong. They shared maybe some goals with conservative like national union and restoration of german military however conservatists try normally to preserve existing social institutions, values and norms. Hitler wiped out these completely out of the window. Hitler brought a real revolutionary change in Germany society. If Nazis were just conservative, not so much would change.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Yeah I can understand that you see that as weird, because you heard probably otherwise in these propaganda docus on YouTube. You know I am from Germany and am not so much influenced from propaganda like other nations about Hitler because I can understand Hitlers speeches directly without any historican in between who doesn't know german culture, doesn't understand German language and who needs to fulfill the victory story.

Hitler was not such a deep thinker that we must strain to understand him.

The notion that American scholars do not understand Hitler is silly.

Quote

conservatists try normally to preserve existing social institutions, values and norms. Hitler wiped out these completely out of the window. Hitler brought a real revolutionary change in Germany society. If Nazis were just conservative, not so much would change.

I already explained that.

An ultra-conservative has to be revolutionary simply because relative to such a view all of society looks way too liberal.

If I wanted to return to traditional American values of slavery and genocide of savages, I would have to wage a radical revolution that would make Ben Shapiro and Alex Jones look like weepy social justice warrior libs and care bears.

A hardcore conservative would rape, execute, and enslave everyone outside his tribe. Don't kid yourself.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

Nazis were way more radical than the most ultra conservative men. They wanted to build an entire new world based on biological principles and would readily sacrifice their own lifes for this new vision. 

Overall Nazis were too revolutionary, they have their own category on the political spectrum.

Edited March 26 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Nazis were way more radical than the most ultra conservative men. They wanted to build an entire new world based on biological principles and would readily sacrifice their own lifes for this new vision. 

Overall Nazis were too revolutionary, they have their own category on the political spectrum.

The majority of Nazis were simple people with basic conservative values like family, country, God, and traditional gender roles.

Some Nazi lunatic mastermind might have a plan for global domination or whatever, but that's not what the base cares or even knows about.

Yes, as you get more extreme right or left on the political specturm people start getting crazier and crazier ideas. Because the vast majority of people are pretty moderate and down the middle. They aren't looking for some ideological ideal. They have to be radicalized into the extremes through brainwashing.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura You can say that many who initially supported or joined the Nazi party might have identified with conservative values. However, the Nazi ideology itself, as it unfolded, was far from conservative in the traditional sense. It sought radical transformation of society. This radicalism far exceeded any conservative inclination toward preserving existing social orders. 

[Leo Gura]

Again, I explained why that is.

It is a paradox of fundamentalism that it seeks to return to the old by radically overturning the current order in clever new ways.

Osama Bin Laden was very conservative, to the point of even rejecting recordings of music. Yet he employed advanced 20th century technology to do his killing, and porn was found on his laptop. Contradiction? Yes! Conservatives are full of shit. They don't have integrity. You can find 100 blatant contradictions in any conservative's worldview and behavior.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura I understood your point but Hitler and Nazi Germany were not the way you see it. Not at all!

While the Nazis invoked traditional values to gain support, their ideology and practices were fundamentally revolutionary, aimed at radically transforming society in ways that are not aligned with conservative principles. Labeling the Nazis as "conservatives" overlooks the radical, totalitarian, and genocidal nature of their regime, which sought not just to conserve or return to a past state of affairs but to create something entirely new based on their ideological vision.

Hitler doesnt even like conservatives. The Nazis' goal was not to restore the monarchy or strengthen conservative institutions but to create a totalitarian state. Conservatives initially mistrusted Hitler and the Nazi Party, seeing them as too radical and disruptive. Nazi goals were fundamentally at odds with conservative principles.

Hitler was able to gain the support of some conservative elements in German society by playing on fears of communism and promising to restore national pride and strength. However, this support was often based on a pragmatic and temporary alignment of interests rather than a genuine shared ideology.

Edited March 26 by OBEler

[Husseinisdoingfine]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A far-right Islamic fundamentalist does not truly observe the tradition of Islam.

Who IS truly observing the traditions of Islam?

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler I shared my perspective of Hitler. If you disagree with me and want to see him differently that is your right. I will not argue any further.

13 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Who IS truly observing the traditions of Islam?

Well, that's all very subjective, but at the least those who aren't murdering civilians.

[Majed]

@Leo Gura leo why do you think the nazis were genocidal ? like how do you come to the point of thinking genociding the jews and the gypsies is a good idea ?

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, Majed said:

how do you come to the point of thinking genociding the jews and the gypsies is a good idea ?

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

as you get more extreme right or left on the political specturm people start getting crazier and crazier ideas. 

 

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura yeah we disagree here completely then. Fine by that, I am german and know how my German ancestors think and lived. They were the opposite of conservatives and from studying Hitlers ideology and their actions it makes no sense to me to even consider Nazis as conservatives. But interesting to hear other views.

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura yeah we disagree here completely then. Fine by that, I am german and know how my German ancestors think and lived. They were the opposite of conservatives and from studying Hitlers ideology and their actions it makes no sense to me to even consider Nazis as conservatives. But interesting to hear other views.

Are you claiming Nazis were liberals?

Are you claiming they were neither, some magical transcendental political breed?

You do understand thar Jordan Peterson and conservatives at large are angeling to cast Hitler as a left-wing socialist?

I am tired of such mental gymnastics. Which is why I made my post. If people didn't play these games I wouldn't be talking about Hitler.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura leo why do you think the nazis were genocidal ? like how do you come to the point of thinking genociding the jews and the gypsies is a good idea ?

Nazism is about purifying the blood of your tribe. You do that by exterminating the impurities like a cancer.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura  Nazis do not fit into the categories of liberalism or conservatism. they can be accurately placed on the political spectrum as a far-right, authoritarian, and fascist ideology.