The difference between enlightenment and awakening

[Nemra]

@Leo Gura Would you consider joining those kinds of communities to learn a technique?

When you say techniques, do you mean the ones that aren't human inventions?

Can't you intuit or know if the techniques in those communities work or not by having done other techniques? They might even be a trap for getting you in and staying stuck like them, which might corrupt your previous awakenings.

My intuition tells me to not waste my time in those communities and do psychedelics, meditation and/or rely on and work on my mental faculties.

Edited March 26 by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Leo Gura Would you consider joining those kinds of communities to learn a technique?

When you say techniques, do you mean the ones that aren't human inventions?

Can't you intuit or know if the techniques in those communities work or not by having done other techniques? They might even be a trap for getting you in and staying stuck like them, which might corrupt your previous awakenings.

My intuition tells me to not waste my time in those communities and do psychedelics and/or rely on and work on my mental faculties.

It all depends. There is no one right answer. Different things work for different people and people have different goals.

You just have to test those things which seem juiciest to you and adjust your approach based off that.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[gettoefl]

4 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

But what about contemplation and curiosity? Being present without curiosity won’t lead to awakening. This is the downside of meditation and shutting off the mind. There are plenty of dogmatic meditators who sit very presently and can access satori’s and samadhis, but this isn’t the same as complete understanding of reality. 

I don’t think meditation can ever lead to the highest levels of understanding because meditation encourages us to shut off the mind rather than to utilize it to explore our curiosity. Do you see how shutting off the mind is only exploring half of reality, whereas using our mind explores the other half.

I am certain that contemplation leads to the highest levels of understanding because contemplation is being deeply curious. Without curiosity and contemplation, even psychedelics and the Buddha himself cannot awaken you. Awakening is a process that happens from within in the same way that medicine helps the body/mind do what it needs to do to heal from within.

All meditation has ever done for me is make me feel happier and peaceful. All of my deepest insights have come from me sitting down and thinking curiously and critically about the present moment or what have you. Correct me if I am wrong, but awakening is about insight and truth rather than my happiness, suffering, and how I feel. Meditation helps more with the latter and contemplation is effective with both.

meditation is to explore the fact that you are being controlled by an ego which doesn't have your interests at heart

it is seeing the thoughts then setting about fixing them

you are not a separate individual living in a time space universe

you are here to undo ego and step into your true nature

you think you see different people all around you right?

no that is what ego told you ... everyone is who you have egoically projected them to be

fix this by seeing everyone as goodness loveliness holiness and then you will start seeing yourself this way

Quote

When a mind has only light, it knows only light. Its own radiance shines all around it and extends out into the darkness of other minds, transforming them into majesty. The majesty of God is there, for you to recognize and appreciate and know.

Perceiving the majesty of God as your brother is to accept your own inheritance. God gives only equally. If you recognize His gift to anyone else, you have acknowledged what He has given you. Nothing is as easy to perceive as truth. This is the perception which is immediate, clear, and natural. You have trained yourself not to see it, and this has been very difficult for you. Outside of your natural environment you can well ask, “What is truth?” because truth is the environment by which and for which you were created. You do not know yourself, because you do not know your Creator. You do not know your creations, because you do not know your brothers who created them with you.

 

[Someone here]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Omniscience is far beyond basic awakening.

Psychedelics are very powerful but awakening is not exclusive to psychedelics.

If you are extremely present for very long periods of time, that can produce awakenings. This is the purpose of long meditation retreats.

Leo you spoke in the past that omniscience is not to know for example how many stars exist in the universe or how much grains of sand exists on earth etc but that you come to a meta awareness that those things are nothing but your imagination.. do you still think that or is actual omniscience possible? 

I notice  Actually the more knowledge you acquire the more intellectually and Epistemologically honest you become..because you realize how much you are missing from the big picture.

The universe is infinitely fucking bizarrely complex that makes a real scientists want to kill themselves. Let alone ordinary people like us .our knowledge is like one grain of sand relative to the entire beach .

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Leo you spoke in the past that omniscience is not to know for example how many stars exist in the universe or how much grains of sand exists on earth etc but that you come to a meta awareness that those things are nothing but your imagination.. do you still think that or is actual omniscience possible? 

We could define different kinds of omniscience, general and specific.

It's a tricky topic. You will not have specific omniscience as a human. General omniscience is more possible.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We could define different kinds of omniscience, general and specific.

It's a tricky topic. You will not have specific omniscience as a human. General omniscience is more possible.

Got it  . So there is a trade off between the highest level of consciousness/awakening and the practicality of what you as a human are capable of . Just like when you said you've reached "God mode " in one of your trips but why didn't you materialize a million bucks out of thin air ? And you said its because at the highest level of consciousness possible there is zero ego and complete selflessness. 

[Leo Gura]

@Someone here Human consciousness is finite, even when you are tapping into Infinity.

If you want the full Infinity the cost is your life. And I don't encourage that.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Someone here Human consciousness is finite, even when you are tapping into Infinity.

If you want the full Infinity the cost is your life. And I don't encourage that.

Don't worry I'm not ready for that . I'm attached to life like a kid in a candy store.. and fear of death is the only reason I haven't killed myself yet 😂. 

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Someone here Human consciousness is finite, even when you are tapping into Infinity.

If you want the full Infinity the cost is your life. And I don't encourage that.

What about if you realize that fundamentally you are already dead?

[Osaid]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Someone here Human consciousness is finite, even when you are tapping into Infinity.

If you want the full Infinity the cost is your life. And I don't encourage that.

Might as well say "infinity exists somewhere other than what exists right now" or might as well even say "infinity doesn't exist."

You are just talking about the future here, not infinity.

"Lack" is created through mental inference/imagination. Not through infinity.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Might as well say "infinity exists somewhere other than what exists right now" or might as well even say "infinity doesn't exist."

You are just talking about the future here, not infinity.

"Lack" is created through mental inference/imagination. Not through infinity.

Oh God. Enough of your carping.

[Osaid]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Oh God. Enough of your carping.

It's obligatory for me to interject everytime you talk about infinity. 

[Someone here]

@Osaid why do you like to poke Leo In the belly and annoy him constantly with basic Semantics and hair splitting? 

ive noticed it .

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Osaid said:

It's obligatory for me to interject everytime you talk about infinity. 

The vulture circles the lion.

[Osaid]

Just now, Someone here said:

@Osaid why do you like to poke Leo In the belly and annoy him constantly with basic Semantics and hair splitting? 

ive noticed it .

I don't think it is basic or semantic or "hair-splitting" to convince people that infinity is antithetical to being human and located in a future.

"Annoy" by contesting that idea?

Being misguided or deluded about what you are feels bad. Just trying to prevent that.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I don't think it is basic or semantic or "hair-splitting" to convince people that infinity is antithetical to being human and located in a future.

So infinity can't appear as a human or future?  By its very nature it must include everything. Even if its just a thought in Leo's head . The mere fact that Leo had that thought means it's part of everythingness /what is . So infinity isn't antithetical to anything otherwise it would be finite. 

9 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Annoy" by contesting that idea?

Being misguided or deluded about what you are feels bad. Just trying to prevent that.

No worries bro I know your intentions are well but I just advice you to leave Leo alone on those niggly little ones.  The guy is not a schmuck ok ? He is one of the few rare people in history who actually have the clue . Or at least that's my opinion. 

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I don't think it is basic or semantic or "hair-splitting" to convince people that infinity is antithetical to being human and located in a future.

"Annoy" by contesting that idea?

Being misguided or deluded about what you are feels bad. Just trying to prevent that.

Don't you perceive that the experience that is taking place is a bubble of consciousness, and therefore is limited? It seems obvious to me

[HMD]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Don't you perceive that the experience that is taking place is a bubble of consciousness, and therefore is limited?

Also no matter how infinite you get as a human, you’re always limited by the need to breathe. 

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, HMD said:

Also no matter how infinite you get as a human, you’re always limited by the need to breathe. 

If there is something defined, be it breathing, seeing, hearing, thinking, there is limitation. Experience means limitation 

[Javfly33]

40 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Might as well say "infinity exists somewhere other than what exists right now" or might as well even say "infinity doesn't exist."

You are just talking about the future here, not infinity.

"Lack" is created through mental inference/imagination. Not through infinity.

I gotta be with Leo on this. You can not tap into all Infinity while maintaining a body. 

Body will break/won´t handle the energy soon once you open the "gates" of perception beyond one's own current senses.

You can peak a bit outside, but not too much, or the light might blind you and kill you 😂.

 

Edited March 26 by Javfly33