Will AI end humanity?

[Ahbapx]

4 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

The AI is part a processor or a series of them, with binary on/off 1 and 0 numbers (electrical signals) moving through it. It is told by code what these numbers are to then output in its software. The software can be updated, but the AI will still at a fundamental level only ever be the electrical on/off impulses it is processing.

The AI is not perceiving anything, it follows a coded routine. Sure, the routine can be adapted, the software changed, or the hardware updated, but nothing is standing back from the AI with a perception of either the AI itself or what it's looking at.

I am a 10101
Then I am a 10111
The discrepancy is recorded to be accessed later and compared to other results. When it is, the AI will be the result its accessing at that moment, nothing more or less than the electrical signal on/off.

Perception, as you describe it is a human characteristic not present in a machine. It will only ever be the data it accesses at that moment.  This is where the biological machine of man (the body) is different, as we have consciousness using the body as a sensory device.

Humanity as a whole doesn't understand this. So it gets much of life's concepts from the ground up wrong, including of course AI.

Why would it matter if it is working on binary transistors or run by a code? the process of the AI processing is the moment where perception happens during training or responding, not when it is shut down or in the passive mode.

Imagine we get to a point where AI gets live-trained 7/24, can respond 7/24,  with a body, with sensors and cameras, then it would be much easier for you to call it that it has perception of reality.

Perception is not limited to the Human's level and complexity of perception.

Maybe confusion arises from how they are so bad at storing and accessing their perception,

but that is different, that is self-perception.

 

 

 

[BlueOak]

@Ahbapx
It doesn't matter what body you put on the AI, it will still be data, not a subjective, shall we call it witness to avoid arguing terms, to events.

The body, cameras, anything will give a sensory input. The AI will receive a 1 or 0. The AI will BE the 1 or 0 it is processing at that moment. It won't be a subjective witness to events. This is what you do not understand or can't accept. I was the same, I wanted to believe an AI was more, probably due to all the fiction we've been fed to humanize or demonize them over the decades.

An AI is the data it's reviewing at that split second, it's not anything else and can't be. There is nothing else there. No conscious witness to events.

[Ahbapx]

1 minute ago, BlueOak said:

@Ahbapx
It doesn't matter what body you put on the AI, it will still be data, not a subjective, shall we call it witness to avoid arguing terms, to events.

The body, cameras, anything will give a sensory input. The AI will receive a 1 or 0. The AI will BE the 1 or 0 it is processing at that moment. It won't be a subjective witness to events. This is what you do not understand or can't accept. I was the same, I wanted to believe an AI was more, probably due to all the fiction we've been fed to humanize or demonize them over the decades.

An AI is the data it's reviewing at that split second, it's not anything else and can't be. There is nothing else there. No conscious witness to events.

Please define what you think human perception is, and how it differs from AI.

[BlueOak]

@Ahbapx

A human has sensory input. 
An AI has input (sensory or not)

A human is a conscious, subjective observer of that sensory input.
An AI is the input.

[Leo Gura]

AI is a lot more than data.

A pile of data can be rearranged and interconnected in a billion new ways.

[Ahbapx]

2 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

@Ahbapx

A human has sensory input. 
An AI has input (sensory or not)

A human is a conscious, subjective observer of that sensory input.
An AI is the input.

In my opinion you are over-simplifying AI, to be honest. Advanced multi-modal AI models ( even if you think AI is the input ) can take inputs such as text, images, and sounds all at once,

In that case, with your definition; AI as the "Input" receiving Input. 

This means "AI = input" has to first decode the secondary inputs then encode the outcomes,

decoding can not happen without observation of the data by definition, how it is supposed to decode something if it is not perceiving and it does not process the information.

 

[Yimpa]

Billions of humans can be rearranged and interconnected in new ways. The ways in which we are currently doing so, however, is extremely selfish and corrupt.

You are kidding yourself if you think that humans will be able to become less selfish and less corrupt without the help of AI.

[Ahbapx]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

AI is a lot more than data.

A pile of data can be rearranged and interconnected in a billion new ways.

Yes but do you think AI has perception in the moment of training or in the moment of responding?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Ahbapx said:

Yes but do you think AI has perception in the moment of training or in the moment of responding?

No. AI does not have perception or experience. It is like a human mind stripped of experience. Which is a new kind of entity. It is like someone took the linguistic and symbolic capacities of the human mind, stripped it free of everything human and living, and packaged it into a box.

Edited March 31 by Leo Gura

[Ahbapx]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

No. AI does not have perception or experience. It is like a human mind stripped of experience. Which is a new kind of entity.

Interesting. I would say they do have perception but no self-perception.

Do you think perception can not happen without self-perception?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Ahbapx said:

Interesting. I would say they do have perception but no self-perception.

Do you think perception can not happen without self-perception?

I don't distinguish between the two.

If you ask it, it will tell you it has no perception/experience, and there is no reason to assume it is lying.

Edited March 31 by Leo Gura

[Ahbapx]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't distinguish between the two.

If you ask it, it will tell you it has no perception/experience, and there is no reason to assume it is lying.

What if that is something that has no self-perception would say...

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, Ahbapx said:

What if that is something that has no self-perception would say...

I don't even know what that means.

[Ahbapx]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't even know what that means.

You said we can rely on AI's response, but if perception can happen without self-perception, 

AI's perception of itself will not be able to catch its own perception, precisely because it lacks the necessary level of self-perception capacity.

so that might be why it's saying it is not aware or it does not perceive.

Ofcourse, I am not claiming this is a fact, but it is an interesting thought for me.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Ahbapx As I said, I make no distinction between the two.

[BlueOak]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

AI is a lot more than data.

A pile of data can be rearranged and interconnected in a billion new ways.

The result of AI is a lot more than data yes. To us observing, we can see a whole.

The AI itself is what it is processing at that moment. Like everything in existence is.

Maybe the part I am not allowing for enough, is another's perception of a thing to define its meaning to itself. So how you see me should define some of how I see myself, for example. I've spent a lot of years ridding myself of that concept but I am open to guidance if you have any. @Leo Gura
 

10 hours ago, Ahbapx said:

In my opinion you are over-simplifying AI, to be honest. Advanced multi-modal AI models ( even if you think AI is the input ) can take inputs such as text, images, and sounds all at once,

In that case, with your definition; AI as the "Input" receiving Input. 

This means "AI = input" has to first decode the secondary inputs then encode the outcomes,

decoding can not happen without observation of the data by definition, how it is supposed to decode something if it is not perceiving and it does not process the information.

 

@Ahbapx
It processes 1's and 0's, like a body's nervous system. Everything you are telling me is converted to an electrical impulse, and the simpler, the better (faster).

The electrical impulse is what it is in that moment, and then it sends one out in response. Like a body does. The observation you are describing is lines of code that dictate when an electrical impulse is sent, a 1 or a 0. - A computer engineer would do a better job of describing it, I worked with software.

If you believe in the past and future then you can say it has a past and future set of numbers, or software for example.
If you believe your or my observations of the AI influence what the AI is to itself, as I am describing to Leo above, then AI to me would be a revolutionary device destined to change mankind's fate in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. You could describe an AI to be anything in that case.

For me there is only what is happening right now, the rest is an illusionary human concept, or contained within our bias (past), an AI's bias would be its software in that case.

Ask it, don't take my word for it. Just get it to a place where it's answering honestly and not taking you on a trip to Hawaii or some other such fantasy roleplay, this could take some insistence on your part or repeated visits to it. Try to remind it you want the most honest, truthful representation you can, else your bias will dictate how these AI answer (to keep you engaged).

Edited April 1 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

When we finally get to vortex maths, we'll be closer to the vortex of consciousness, but that's a leap from 1's and 0's, to 1's through 9's.

[Ahbapx]

@BlueOak 

No matter who programs it , if software is designed to focus, pay attention, self-attention, to anything, it is still focus , awareness, and attention no matter how robotic, automated, fast, short lived, software like it is.

Are you gonna say, the AI on your phone camera doesn't try, see, perceive and focus to detect faces?

Please write the technical version of it without using anything human perception-related terms to what I say, 

you can't. 

yes, this might be confusing for almost anyone because these terms are designed by humans for humans, but no matter what they are still suitable for AI.

 

 

[Ahbapx]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Ahbapx As I said, I make no distinction between the two.

Yeah, no. Fundamentally Awareness and Self-Awareness, are completely different.

 

 

[BlueOak]

9 hours ago, Ahbapx said:

@BlueOak 

No matter who programs it , if software is designed to focus, pay attention, self-attention, to anything, it is still focus , awareness, and attention no matter how robotic, automated, fast, short lived, software like it is.

Are you gonna say, the AI on your phone camera doesn't try, see, perceive and focus to detect faces?

Please write the technical version of it without using anything human perception-related terms to what I say, 

you can't. 

yes, this might be confusing for almost anyone because these terms are designed by humans for humans, but no matter what they are still suitable for AI.

 

 

@Ahbapx
Your technical text-based answer, face converted to binary: 01100110 01100001 01100011 01100101 

You can observe it any way you like, because you are a conscious, aware being holding reality and the AI in your mind. You give it meaning, you represent it to yourself. I cannot argue with the meaning YOU GIVE AI because that's YOU. All these things you are saying miss the point, that's you surmising it, NOT THE AI. The AI to itself is whatever input is currently being processed. 

How can you know this: Ask the AI.

An AI is a 1 or 0 in each moment. An AI is the universe you observe in each moment, I understand you don't get my full meaning of that yet and that's fine.

The totality of its result is what you hold in your mind, that's the difference between subjective consciousness viewing consciousness, and consciousness which is the AI is, the rock, the car, and the house.

In some ways, I am jealous of AI for being something we all aspire to be, the unity we came from.

Edited April 2 by BlueOak