Harmala extract vs Syrian Rue tea for oral DMT

[woohoo123]

Hi everyone,

I usually boil 3-4g Syrian Rue as MAOI, wait 30 mins and then take DMT fumarate. This method is proven for me and I got solid trips off it. 

The tea is gross so I'm trying to find easier alternatives. 

I found this x5 Harmala extract off eBay (powdered capsules) which I was hoping to just be able to substitute for my Syrian Rue tea.

I took 2 capsules (should be ~3.5g Syrian Rue seeds equivalent) and followed the same procedure. 

I saw some light shapes, good relaxation but the trip never really 'took off'. 

The only thing in question here is if I am taking the right amount of Harmala extract and if the timing (using the extract) is correct.

Next time I can try to take 3 capsules of Harmala extract (~5g Syrian Rue, but I would never make a tea with this many seeds) but otherwise I'm a bit confused why this didn't work for me.

Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks everyone.

Edited March 24 by woohoo123

[Leo Gura]

Sounds like your dose is too low because the extract is too weak.

And also increase your time from 30m to 45m.

And make sure it's on empty stomach.

[woohoo123]

yup always on empty stomach. 

Yea I will try up the dose thanks

[bmcnicho]

@woohoo123 There are also pure extracts available, that way you would remove uncertainty in dosing.  There are 3 types of extracts that would work, with the following doses for full mao inhibition:

Harmaline HCl: 100 mg

Harmine HCl: 200 mg

Or Full Spectrum: 150 mg

[Jason Actualization]

Yeah, Syrian Rue tea is extremely unpleasant, I remember using 3-4g pre DMT flight to achieve what has been dubbed "Vaporhuasca" which effectively prolongs the otherwise notoriously short (~7-8 minute) time in hyperspace when vaporizing the freebase.

It's nice to know there are more palatable options available, I wish I had explored this further.

[woohoo123]

5 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

@woohoo123 There are also pure extracts available, that way you would remove uncertainty in dosing.  There are 3 types of extracts that would work, with the following doses for full mao inhibition:

Harmaline HCl: 100 mg

Harmine HCl: 200 mg

Or Full Spectrum: 150 mg

Thanks for this. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to which type of pure extract to use? Or are these three types more or less the same? Just wondering if there was a preference there

[Leo Gura]

None of these extracts are standardized, so you just have to experiment with them to see what the right dose is.

[What Am I]

Harmala extracts should be a way cleaner experience than rue tea, in the sense that you can avoid a large number of chemicals that come along in the tea and produce nausea and other unwanted effects. I agree with@bmcnicho that you should use purified individual harmala extracts and create an ideal ratio. Something like 100mg harmine and 50mg tetrahydroharmine would be similar to a caapi harmala extract. I avoid harmaline entirely, as it's too sedating and overpowering. I've had huge success using these amounts, with the result being some extremely heavenly experiences.

@Leo Guraare we allowed to link sources for legal items like harmalas?

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, What Am I said:

are we allowed to link sources for legal items like harmalas

Yes

[What Am I]

Harmine - https://bountybotanicals.com/harmine-hydrochloride/

THH - https://bountybotanicals.com/tetrahydroharmine-hcl/

I can vouch for the seller, at least for the single transaction I've had. The harmalas seem to be high quality as well.

A quick side note on the oral DMT dose: I've seen recommendations on this forum to start at ~100mg, but I'd have to respectfully disagree. When it comes to oral DMT, I think there's some variability between individuals in how much is needed for an equivalent effect. I'd compare it to how some people need to boof much more 5-MeO-DMT. In my experience, 30mg DMT with 150mg total harmalas is enough for a strong trip with heavy visuals and a highly transcendent type of mindspace. Going higher than that pushes into extremes, so 100mg for me would be unthinkable and potentially dangerous (at least mentally if not physically). It sounds like OP is already familiar with their individual dose, so this is more so advice for whoever else may stumble across it.

Edited March 26 by What Am I

[bmcnicho]

@woohoo123 I’ve only tried it with harmine.  Like @What Am I said, harmaline is sedating, while harmine is slightly stimulating.  For that reason, most people prefer harmine.

As for THH (tetrahydroharmine), from what I’ve read it’s only a weak maoi that doesn’t contribute much to the total effects.  It’s also a mild ssri (not enough so to be dangerous at the recommended dose).  Someone on DMT Nexus said it provides a subtle improvement that really only those who are highly experienced would notice.

And then full spectrum contains all 3 at the same proportions as found in Syrian rue.  That would be the most similar to traditional ayahuasca.