Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Merkabah Star]

https://x.com/Kahlissee/status/1802142660351640061
 

israelis apparently being denied lodging in Japan. 
 

Sorry, not sure how to load twitter links. 

[Karmadhi]

5 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

israelis apparently being denied lodging in Japan. 

Also Maldives kicked them out and dont allow them to come anymore.

I would not be suprised if Non American/European countries basically boycott Israel in many ways, if they continue with their bs.

Edited June 17 by Karmadhi

[Merkabah Star]

@Karmadhi yeah the gennadiy guy is in your face but I actually like him the most because he is the most honest. I respect that more. 

[Hatfort]

The savages have their hostages safe and healthy, and they are being said that they have Stockholm syndrome. You know who don't have Stockholm syndrome? The ones apprehended by the civilized side, because they rape them, they torture them and they even kill them. There are cases of some of their hands having to be amputated because they string them so tight and for so long. I wouldn't have Stockholm syndrome either.

[Nivsch]

@BlessedLion Correct me if I am wrong but I feel from your messages that you don't so much like Israel (;

@Karmadhi , I think that @Vrubel has great points and insights and mostly I tend to agree with him but there is never 100% because every one has his unique angle. About @Gennadiy1981 I have significant disagreements with him but I see in his messages sometimes interesting and beautiful points too that worth thinking about.

@Hatfort You have to add proofs when your claims are so far reaching.

Edited June 17 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

On 16.6.2024 at 0:18 AM, Merkabah Star said:

Come on guys the IDF are the most moral army in the world. 

😀

Every isolated case being shown here about problematic things IDF soldiers do that are indeed bad, has still to be taken in a proportional broad view if you want your critisism to be fair and taken seriously.

After all there are thousands of Israeli soldiers in Gaza these days and when in such numbers there will necessarily always be such cases statistically unless you have a tier 2 angel like military.

It doesn't mean IDF doesnt have problems in it but every critisism has to be taken in a broad, statistically grounded and comparable to other western militaries wars against terror perspective.

Edited June 17 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

   Great video on this topic:

 

[Danioover9000]

@Karmadhi

5 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Nivsch @Gennadiy1981 The difference between you 2 is that Nivsch tends to be more central in his views regarding this issue while Gennadiy is more radical. Nivsch calls people like Ben Gvir too radical and extreme. Also most importantly, he is in favour of two state and does not use Torah and bible stuff to justify anything. And he seems to have some compassion for the suffering of Palestinians and does admit the government goes too far sometimes. So yeah.

@Vrubel Is somewhere between Nivsch and Gennadiy. More harsh than Nivsch but less radical than Gennadiy. He is pro two state and recognizes that the land is also partially Palestinian. But when it comes to the Israeli Gaza response, I have not seen him say that they went too far ever.

My assessment of you guys.

Thank you for being here and posting about this, it gives interesting insight of Israelis and how they differ towards this issues.

   I'd say Niv leans more towards Israel. Don't let the fence sitting both siding language fool you.

[Danioover9000]

@BlessedLion

11 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

Israel is absolutely disgusting

   Likud party Netanyahu and Zionists are more disgusting than Israel, and the idea of Israel is dangerous especially after Al Nakba, Oslo accords, the springs, so many fighting over lands taken by force slowly over decades. 

[Danioover9000]

@Merkabah Star

On 2024-06-15 at 10:18 PM, Merkabah Star said:

Come on guys the IDF are the most moral army in the world. 

😀

   Yes, especially denouncing any tactical ceasefires.

 

[hundreth]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

It does matter a lot because it makes Hamas has a certain image which may or not be true.

Saying "A group of people went in a village and shot everyone they found and raped some" is a classical textbook military practice which still happens today. It is unfortunately still common in war. Russians did it in Bucha, US did it in Vietnam. Etc.

Saying "A group of people went into a village, beheaded babies, put babies in ovens, tied childreen and burned them alive, cut bellies of preagant women etc", is no longer a classical textbook military practice. It happens in very specific places around the world but humanity at large has evolved past this. It paints the group as a bunch of barbaric medieval people. It creates much stronger emotions. Leo has said it well "It is not just how many you kill, but also how you kill that counts". 1 clip of a beheaded Palestinian baby killed in Rafah caused an insane outrage, much more than literally hundreds of children's that have been shot dead by Israeli snipers. It creates powerful emotions. 

What happened that day is indeed horrific, no deny there.

But the way you portray the people responsible is important because it will then justify doing horrible things back.

If the emotional outrage that causes that justification is built based on lies, it makes the whole ordeal much more manipulative and untruthful.

 

I already addressed all that in my initial response. Israelis are not and have not been using "beheaded babies" as any form of justification for any actions. The claim was initiated by a confused Biden. Show me someone who is pro israel who is still talking about that. It's only anti Israel voices who continually bring this up to obfuscate the story and cover the actual atrocities Hamas did do.

The fact remains that Hamas did infiltrate many innocent villages as well as a music festival and brutally murdered them in cold blood while celebrating and live streaming their actions. They had absolutely no military objective, the goal was to murder and kidnap as many Jews as possible.

Of course a life lost is a life lost and it is always tragic... but it DOES matter how you conduct yourself, and what Hamas did that day was absolutely savage. Having intel that a military leader is somewhere, bombing them, and having civilian casualties is horrible but no where near the personal level of derangement it requires to go up close and personal and murder a family in cold blood. 

There is of course something to be said about how modern military practices separate us from the reality and level of devastation our actions create. This is something Israelis and modern militaries in general need to reflect on, but this doesn't make what Hamas did any less deranged.

[Danioover9000]

@Hatfort

2 hours ago, Hatfort said:

The savages have their hostages safe and healthy, and they are being said that they have Stockholm syndrome. You know who don't have Stockholm syndrome? The ones apprehended by the civilized side, because they rape them, they torture them and they even kill them. There are cases of some of their hands having to be amputated because they string them so tight and for so long. I wouldn't have Stockholm syndrome either.

   Yeah the Israeli spy agency can be brutal especially from that region. Even Turkish and other based spies there still use archaic ways of getting information outta ya.

[Danioover9000]

@hundreth

1 minute ago, hundreth said:

I already addressed all that in my initial response. Israelis are not and have not been using "beheaded babies" as any form of justification for any actions. The claim was initiated by a confused Biden. Show me someone who is pro israel who is still talking about that. It's only anti Israel voices who continually bring this up to obfuscate the story and cover the actual atrocities Hamas did do.

The fact remains that Hamas did infiltrate many innocent villages as well as a music festival and brutally murdered them in cold blood while celebrating and live streaming their actions. They had absolutely no military objective, the goal was to murder and kidnap as many Jews as possible.

Of course a life lost is a life lost and it is always tragic... but it DOES matter how you conduct yourself, and what Hamas did that day was absolutely savage. Having intel that a military leader is somewhere, bombing them, and having civilian casualties is horrible but no where near the personal level of derangement it requires to go up close and personal and murder a family in cold blood. 

There is of course something to be said about how modern military practices separate us from the reality and level of devastation our actions create. This is something Israelis and modern militaries in general need to reflect on, but this doesn't make what Hamas did any less deranged.

   Yes, let's complain about Oct 7, but forget the 80 years of Israel Likud party Zionists stealing lands from Palestine and their decades of demilitarizing and destabilizing Palestine that any statehood development is stunted. Bravo!

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@hundreth

   Yes, let's complain about Oct 7, but forget the 80 years of Israel Likud party Zionists stealing lands from Palestine and their decades of demilitarizing and destabilizing Palestine that any statehood development is stunted. Bravo!

Even if I agreed with your over simplified premise about 80 years of xyz - which I do not, you should still be upset with what Hamas did that day. Two things can be true at once. 

[Danioover9000]

@hundreth

1 minute ago, hundreth said:

Even if I agreed with your over simplified premise about 80 years of xyz - which I do not, you should still be upset with what Hamas did that day. Two things can be true at once. 

   Of course you don't, admitting to the horrors Israel has done to Palestine over those 80+ years would make you never sleep peacefully at all, which is why you lot have to delude yourselves into believing a pristine squeaky clean innocent Israel being threatened by savages and barbarians like the Palestinians and other neighboring theocratic Islam states to even live normally in Israel, and to justify Likud party's rule over you lot. 

[Hatfort]

Quote

The main thing is, first of all, to strike them. Not once, but several times, so painfully, that the price they pay is unbearable. So far the price tag is not unbearable. I mean, a large-scale attack on the Palestinian Authority, causing them to fear that everything is about to collapse. Fear is what they bring to...

Hold on, but then again the world will say that we are the aggressors.

They can say whatever they want.

Aren't you afraid of what they will say, Bibi?

Especially today with the USA, I know how they are. America is something that you can easily maneuver in the right direction. And even if they say something. So what? 80% of Americans support us. It's absurd. Look, I wasn't afraid to maneuver the Clinton administration and the UN.

What happened with the Oslo accords? The accords which were ratified by parliament. I was asked before the 1996 elections, will you fulfill them? I said yes, subject to reciprocity and minimizing pullouts. I gave my own interpretation of the agreements, in such a way, that will allow me to stop the race back towards the 1967 borders. How did we do this? Nobody defined what military facilities are, so I defined them as being security zones. The entire Jordan Valley, for me, is a military facility. I received a letter from the (secretary of state Warren) Christofer, sent to me and Arafat, saying that Israel, and only Israel, will define the military facilities, their location, and size. Now, they didn't want to give me this letter, so I refused to ratify the Hebron accords (of 1997). I stopped the government meeting and I said, 'I won't sign'. Only when the letter arrived during that meeting, to me and Arafat, I signed the Hebron accords. You gave 2% but you stopped the withdrawal, rather than 100%.

The whole destruction and slaughter, the genocide, that is happening right now in Gaza and the West Bank is deliberate. It's Netanyahu's vision and the whole Zionist country is following him into this madness. According to the polls, most of them are asking to go even harder on the Palestinians, sad but true. He has also had the USA government, the UN, and Western media in his pocket since always, he brags about it.

[Danioover9000]

@Hatfort

15 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

The whole destruction and slaughter, the genocide, that is happening right now in Gaza and the West Bank is deliberate. It's Netanyahu's vision and the whole Zionist country is following him into this madness. According to the polls, most of them are asking to go even harder on the Palestinians, sad but true. He has also had the USA government, the UN, and Western media in his pocket since always, he brags about it.

   That's insane to think it's so blatant...

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Karmadhi

   I'd say Niv leans more towards Israel. Don't let the fence sitting both siding language fool you.

Of course my emotions are with Israel. I was born here, this is my home and I have a 36 years long experience on Israel.

And I am surprised (in a good way of course) you seperated successfuly my first name (Niv) from my last name 😊

Edited June 17 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

The fact remains that Hamas did infiltrate many innocent villages as well as a music festival and brutally murdered them in cold blood while celebrating and live streaming their actions. They had absolutely no military objective, the goal was to murder and kidnap as many Jews as possible.

 

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

This is something Israelis and modern militaries in general need to reflect on, but this doesn't make what Hamas did any less deranged.

 

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

Having intel that a military leader is somewhere, bombing them, and having civilian casualties is horrible but no where near the personal level of derangement it requires to go up close and personal and murder a family in cold blood. 

+1 ❤️

[Nivsch]