Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

10 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Israel offers the Palestinians the foundation of a two state solution, offering the Palestinians all this land. Instead of negotiating, they [🇵🇸] launch an Intifada. Despite launching an Intifada, Israeli leaders again offer the West Bank, and leave the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians instead of turning Gaza into the next Singapore or Hong Kong, turn it into a terror base. 

 

In Barak’s deal it was 96% of what israel considered the West Bank, that didn’t include settlements, the Dead Sea, or the Jordan valley. Agreeing means israel annexes 10% of the West Bank and keeps temporary control of 12%.

It also required permanent Israeli control of airspace, three Israeli controlled military bases in the West Bank, Israel presence at border crossings, and giving israel the right to invade when they feel necessary.

The deal also didn’t allow Palestinian sovereignty in most of east jeresulem including Palestinian neighborhoods.

It also required letting Israel keep some settlements in the Gaza Strip.

The intifada only began after Barak announced that Israel had no plans to withdraw from the town of Abu Dis, as it had pledged to do in the 1995 Oslo II and Israel settlement building had increased 81 percent in the first quarter of 2000, then Israeli troops opened fire on unarmed Palestinian rock-throwers at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, killing four and wounding over 200.

When Israel left the Gaza Strip, they put it under a blockade that in their own words was designed to crush the economy and caused it to have one of the highest unemployment rates in the world , and controlled everything and everyone that got in and out effectively trapping the majority of people inside. So while they did remove Israeli presence from inside Gaza, they still controlled it outside.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Raze

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

that didn’t include settlements

Of course you won't evacuate 100K people this is why there is an areas exchanges in the deal. To compensate.

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

It also required permanent Israeli control of airspace, three Israeli controlled military bases in the West Bank, Israel presence at border crossings, and giving israel the right to invade when they feel necessary.

Ask yourself why.

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

The deal also didn’t allow Palestinian sovereignty in most of east jeresulem including Palestinian neighborhoods.

This is de-facto an Arab dominant area all the time.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

The West Bank was carved up into disconnected islands by settlements to ensure that it could never unify into a proper and successful state.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Of course you won't evacuate 100K people this is why there is an areas exchanges in the deal. To compensate.

Then an exchange would be agreeing to the right of return and letting Palestinians still alive from the Nakba return to Israel 

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Ask yourself why.

To remove their ability to defend themselves and have full self determination

[Nivsch]

14 minutes ago, Raze said:

When Israel left the Gaza Strip, they put it under a blockade that in their own words was designed to crush the economy and caused it to have one of the highest unemployment rates in the world , and controlled everything and everyone that got in and out effectively trapping the majority of people inside. So while they did remove Israeli presence from inside Gaza, they still controlled it outside.

This has truth but oversimplified because much of this blockade was a security necessity. Don't forget you have to secure a terror state from leaking outside.

[Nivsch]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Then an exchange would be agreeing to the right of return and letting Palestinians still alive from the Nakba return to Israel 

It can be but I meant to give them other areas.

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

To remove their ability to defend themselves and have full self determination

In Israeli perspective is to prevent dangerous terror attacks that can get out of control.

[Nivsch]

@Raze Also Israel has entered 200-400 trucks of basic needs to Gaza in average every day for 18 years. This is aid around the clock.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Nivsch

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

Leave and go where? 

Surrounding countries, Europe, Asia, North Africa, America, Israel maybe.

The how can be figured out. See who's willing to take in refugees.

[Raze]

4 minutes ago, Basman said:

Surrounding countries, Europe, Asia, North Africa, America, Israel maybe.

The how can be figured out. See who's willing to take in refugees.

The surrounding countries don’t want to be blamed for enabling ethnic cleansing, they are also poor and can’t handle another huge influx of refugees. 

Europe and America won’t take them.

Israel is the one expelling them.

[Basman]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

The surrounding countries don’t want to be blamed for enabling ethnic cleansing, they are also poor and can’t handle another huge influx of refugees. 

Europe and America won’t take them.

Israel is the one expelling them.

That's a problem.

[Raze]

 

 

[Nivsch]

Major General (Res.) Yom Tov Samia:

"Today's Likud is not the Likud we were accustomed to 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. Today's Likud is a crazy entity that has brought in Ben Gvir and Smotrich and is leading us to destruction."

Edited December 30, 2024 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaD5-OM7MUChw0UWFWfRHuA5aNHR84tz-&si=q-xYeXAwwhda2ps4

 

[Twentyfirst]

Just now, Twentyfirst said:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaD5-OM7MUChw0UWFWfRHuA5aNHR84tz-&si=q-xYeXAwwhda2ps4

 

There is so much truth drops in this playlist that there is no way you can deny reality. It’s not even an argument anymore. The west has been rotten from the beginning 

[Raze]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-18/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-expose-arbitrary-killings-and-rampant-lawlessness-in-gazas-netzarim-corridor/00000193-da7f-de86-a9f3-fefff2e50000
 

Quote

"One time, guards spotted someone approaching from the south. We responded as if it was a large militant raid. We took positions and just opened fire. I'm talking about dozens of bullets, maybe more. For about a minute or two, we just kept shooting at the body. People around me were shooting and laughing."

But the incident didn't end there. "We approached the blood-covered body, photographed it, and took the phone. He was just a boy, maybe 16." An intelligence officer collected the items, and hours later, the fighters learned the boy wasn't a Hamas operative – but just a civilian. 

"That evening, our battalion commander congratulated us for killing a terrorist, saying he hoped we'd kill ten more tomorrow," the fighter adds. "When someone pointed out he was unarmed and looked like a civilian, everyone shouted him down. The commander said: 'Anyone crossing the line is a terrorist, no exceptions, no civilians. Everyone's a terrorist.'

 

Quote

An officer in Division 252's command recalls when the IDF spokesperson announced their forces had killed over 200 militants. "Standard procedure requires photographing bodies and collecting details when possible, then sending evidence to intelligence to verify militant status or at least confirm they were killed by the IDF," he explains. "Of those 200 casualties, only ten were confirmed as known Hamas operatives. Yet no one questioned the public announcement about killing hundreds of militants."

Quote

Another fighter describes witnessing four unarmed people walking normally, spotted by a surveillance drone. Despite clearly not appearing as militants, a tank advanced and opened fire with its machine gun. "Hundreds of bullets," he recalls. Three died immediately ("the sight haunts me," he says), while the fourth survived and raised his hands in surrender. 

"We put him in a cage set up near our position, stripped off his clothes, and left him there," the soldier recounts. "Soldiers passing by spat on him. It was disgusting. Finally, a military interrogator came, questioned him briefly while holding a gun to his head, then ordered his release." The man had simply been trying to reach his uncles in northern Gaza. "Later, officers praised us for killing 'terrorists.' I couldn't understand what they meant," the fighter says

Quote

This approach isn't limited to Division 252. A Division 99 reservist describes watching a drone feed showing "an adult with two children crossing the forbidden line." They were walking unarmed, seemingly searching for something. "We had them under complete surveillance with the drone and weapons aimed at them – they couldn't do anything," he says. "Suddenly we heard a massive explosion. A combat helicopter had fired a missile at them. Who thinks it's legitimate to fire a missile at children? And with a helicopter?

 

[Twentyfirst]

 

[Basman]

If I understand correctly, the long-term goal of Zionism is creating a home land of Jews and to that extend they have methodically ethnically cleansed Palestinians to this day. Israel right now is already doing fine. Its a top ranking country in terms of GDP. Why does it want to take more land? Is it simply a matter of excess?

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Basman said:

If I understand correctly, the long-term goal of Zionism is creating a home land of Jews and to that extend they have methodically ethnically cleansed Palestinians to this day. Israel right now is already doing fine. Its a top ranking country in terms of GDP. Why does it want to take more land? Is it simply a matter of excess?

Because there are still many fanatics in Israel who came to power in the last election and turned the wheel to the extreme right. They use their power to exort the Prime Minister to imply their ideology or they will retire and collapse the government.

Edited 23 hours ago by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Basman said:

Why does it want to take more land? Is it simply a matter of excess?

It's purely a matter of ideology. They have brainwashed themselves to believe that that land belongs to them. It's religious dogma. They feel entitled to kill anyone on that land to "liberate" it.

It's as if my religion told me that your house belongs to me. I would feel it fair to kill your children squatting in MY house.

Edited 22 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Terell Kirby]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It's purely a matter of ideology. They have brainwashed themselves to believe that that land belongs to them.

I wish Zionist ideology would be called into question more in public political discourse-especially the mainstream. A lot of this Israeli-Palestine issue would be resolved and looked at truthfully simply from deconstructing Zionist ideology and it’s limitations.