Israel / Palestine News Thread

[royce]

@Nivsch When I read these things, I wonder for 3 seconds whether the Israelis are really that naive, or if they are treating the world as if it were stupid. Then I remember that they all served in the army. 

I respect the right-wingers more than these people; at least they are consistent with themselves and their country.

Edited October 15 by royce

[Nivsch]

 

[Nivsch]

18 minutes ago, royce said:

I respect the right-wingers more than these people; at least they are consistent with themselves and their country.

You mean they are consisted with the way you want to see Israel. Oh OK.

Edited October 15 by Nivsch

[royce]

5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

You mean they are consisted with the way you want to see Israel. Oh OK.

I think if I were a liberal Jew, I would shut the fuck up.I wouldn’t defend this bullshit.and  I don’t think I’d try to be a hero against the tribe it’s too hard 

And it’s not really a survival thing like you’re trying to make it seem. You’re living well. 

Or maybe it’s a duty? Is the government coming after those who don’t share their propaganda?I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s true.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura @Nivsch

Issue I have with Israel is that it is not just Bibi or Ben Gvir or Smotrich.

The entire political sphere historically has been filled with war criminals who conduct war in the most barbaric manners.

You have Ariel Sharone for once, who literally personally oversaw the "Sabra and Shatila" massacre where 1500-3500 people were killed in 2 days.

Then we have Begin who was being so barbaric in his assault on Lebanon, Reagan, an AMERICAN PRESIDENT had to call him and tell him to "stop this holocaust" for him to put an end to it.

Lastly we have Olmert who did shit lot of war crimes and collective punishment in the 2006 Lebanon war.

All of them in the last 40 years or so.

Not to mention Naftali Bennet would not be any less barbaric in the current wars if he had power given by what he has said.

Their ENTIRE political sphere is filled with war criminals.

Therefore I doubt just changing hands of power will improve things much and I doubt most Israeli leaders would have prosecuted the war much differently.

Keep in mind the ICC charges for war crimes are not towards Ben Gvir or Smotrich but towards Gallant, the minister of defense. I rarely hear people shit on him. It is always these 3 (Bibi, Gvir, Smotrich).

Yet according to the International court Gallant should be in jail for war crimes.

if you want sources for these claims feel free to let me know.

The only reasonable one was Rabin who came from the left Labour party and was killed for being reasonable.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong

Edited October 15 by Karmadhi

[royce]

5 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

The only reasonable one was Rabin who came from the left Labour party and was killed for being reasonable.

 

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/myths-of-yitzhak-rabin-432611

Edited October 15 by royce

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Their ENTIRE political sphere is filled with war criminals.

Yes, of course. Israel was an ethnic cleansing project from day 1. And it still is today. Nothing has changed. Once this point is understood, everything makes sense.

Begin was a terrorist. He organized terrorist attacks against the British to force them to pull out of Palestine, which succeeded.

Begin lead the most successful terrorism campaign in history, which led to the formation of the Israeli state.

People generally assume that terrorism doesn't work. And usually that's true. But Israel is history's greatest example of terrorism working, thanks to Begin and his friends. All of it this is a matter of historical record.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi In this kind of environment, evolved or advanced western minded people too can behave differently in heated situations when face survival challenges. You see this in America's wars and the Europeen coalition as well. Israel's historical as well as present policies aren't worse than those of the rest of the West in any sense.

Edited October 15 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

present policies aren't worse than those of the rest of the West in any sense.

Yes they are. The West is generally not engaged in ethnic cleansing these days. And the West is not creating ethno-states.

Israel is violating many many international laws and doing serious war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Your war is fundamentally racist.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes they are. The West is generally not engaged in ethnic cleansing these days. And the West is not creating ethno-states.

If the west has to settle in the environment Jews has settled in, it won't have a choice but to create an etno Christian state as the only way to preserve its western values and to not drown into Sharia.

Edited October 15 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

If the west has to settle in the environment Jews has settled in, it won't have a choice but to create an etno Christian state as the only way to preserve its western values and to not drown into Sharia.

That is both irrelevant and false.

There is no need for Israel to be an ethno-state. The only reason for it is that Jews are so self-adsorbed that they cannot help themselves.

[PurpleTree]

7 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Can you show me some of my posts of where I’m "very apologetic for their barbarism"?

@Karmadhi ?

 

[zazen]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

People generally assume that terrorism doesn't work. And usually that's true. But Israel is history's greatest example of terrorism working, thanks to Begin and his friends. All of it this is a matter of historical record.

America also is a great example of terrorism working, but that is now waning in its effectiveness against rising regional powers.

 This time stamp on Israel 5:48sec is on point.

 

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no need for Israel to be an ethno-state

Why not?

By Ethno state I mean to more than 50% of the population to be Jews.

Today Jews here are 73% (without counting WB and Gaza. Only inside international lines).

Edited October 15 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

12 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

?

I will go back and research. Busy right now. Just your tone seems to be a bit apologetic. Calling you Pro Israel was perhaps a bit of an exageration. My apologies.

[Karmadhi]

37 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Karmadhi In this kind of environment, evolved or advanced western minded people too can behave differently in heated situations when face survival challenges. You see this in America's wars and the Europeen coalition as well. Israel's historical as well as present policies aren't worse than those of the rest of the West in any sense.

If you compare the West bombing of Yugoslavia it was far more surgical and less civilian deaths than this war for example.

I have not seen the West in the last 10 years or so intentionally target journalists, medics, hospitals etc.

Did the US have a policy of sniping childreen in the Middle East?

Many other examples.

The war crimes in Gaza are perhaps the worst of the 21st Century.

To be honest you do not need to look at Al Jazeera or other media outlets which Israelis percieve as anti Jewish or biased against Israel.

Just read what B'Tselem, they are Israeli and they seem to well report a lot of the horrible things going on there.

You can educate yourself just by reading Israeli sources.

Lastly and this is off topic. Which Israeli leader would you prefer to be in power if Bibi steps down?

Edited October 15 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Why not?

By Ethno state I mean to more than 50% of the population to be Jews.

You can have whatever percentage of whoever in a nation without having to devote your nation to one priveleged ethnicity or religion.

This kind of priveleging leads to racist policy and oppression of minorities.

Obviously I don't expect Israel to appreciate this or change.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can have whatever percentage of whoever in a nation without having to devote your nation to one priveleged ethnicity or religion.

This kind of priveleging leads to racist policy.

I agree that no ethnicity should be privileged, but technically you still need to have slightly above 50% of the power to the law and court to stay western.

Edited October 15 by Nivsch

[zazen]

43 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Karmadhi In this kind of environment, evolved or advanced western minded people too can behave differently in heated situations when face survival challenges. You see this in America's wars and the Europeen coalition as well. Israel's historical as well as present policies aren't worse than those of the rest of the West in any sense.

That's what makes the West stand out, in particular the US. They are not at risk of survival, yet act out barbarically across the planet as if they need to stamp out some existential threat. Bombing regions into the stone age whilst calling people in those regions primitive and backwards - when they act primitive and backwards. Acting out impulsive and violent like stage red, but with all the gadgets and tech that stage orange offers, justifying it through stage blue and green morality. American exceptionalism is a form of barbarity with a face lift of utopian ideals.

As far as Israel is concerned, they literally create their survival challenges by their very own policy. No country or group is actually a existential threat to Israel, yet they amplify them as threats to their ''survival'' to justify their policies of ''defense'' which happen to be settlement expansion and further land grabbing now to create buffer zones between them and their ''enemies''.

Edited October 15 by zazen

[Nivsch]

7 minutes ago, zazen said:

No country or group is actually a existential risk to Israel,

This actually doesn't matter if there is a real tangible enough existential threat or not.

The experience of Israelis is that there is. And when not to Israel, to their own lives.

From there their thinking about Palestinians and any operation Israel conducts against terrorist organizations stems.

Edited October 15 by Nivsch