Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

So, if you want to argue in hypotheticals, here you go.

Oct 7th was no hypothetical.

You are sitting in your armchair and arguing hypotheticals.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

What's the difference between what Hamas said they would do in that video and what Israel is actively doing? Why Hamas is the only genocidal maniac in this case?

The difference is that Gaza hasn't been nuked.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Genocidal intend has been established and is not considered a point of contention. They are already executing on their will. 

No.

You are falling into false equivalencies. Their will is not the same.

Edited August 10 by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura why would you put hamas at stage red and not stage blue ?

[Something Funny]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The difference is that Gaza hasn't been nuked.

What is the reasoning behind you saying that Hamas would nuke Israel? Even in the video you linked, his intention seemed to be taking those territories back for themselves (which obviously wouldn't be possible if they nuked them first). At least this is the vibe I got from his interview.

Edit:

 

Specifically when he said that occupation of palestinian land by israel should end. 

Which to me shows that he still views those territories as palestine and want to take them back, not nuke them.

Edited August 10 by Something Funny

[Raze]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You should listen to the Hamas leader I quote-posted. Not anyone else.

You are starting to turn into a leftist-MAGA, where I give you clear undisputable evidence and you just skip over it and carry on with your ways. There can be no healthy politics if you behave that way.

In that same full statement he claimed they aren’t targeting civilians, should we all assume that’s true too?

Edited August 10 by Raze

[Bobby_2021]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oct 7th was no hypothetical.

"Hamas would genocide Israelis if they could" was the hypothetical scenario you were putting forth. I was responding to that with more hypotheticals.

Intend is same as thought. You can think and have intend as much as you want, as long as you do not ACT on them. 

Israel will talk LGBTQAI+ & veganism and then go on to do a genocide. No one takes these talks seriously. It's a rhetoric.

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

You are falling into false equivalencies. Their will is not the same.

 Their actions are also not the same. Perhaps actions are more consequential than words or will. 

Edited August 10 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

In that same full statement he claimed they aren’t targeting civilians, should we all assume that’s true too?

No, because a genocidal lunatic obviously does not care about civilians.

Hamas has denied targeting civilians on Oct 7th.

You look at whether their words match their actions.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura why would you put hamas at stage red and not stage blue ?

Even if you put them at Blue, Israel would be Orange/Blue/Green, so higher.

[Raze]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, because a genocidal lunatic obviously does not care about civilians.

Hamas has denied targeting civilians on Oct 7th.

You look at whether their words match their actions.

Their actions haven’t been genocidal, you just assume they would do it if they could, but regardless so far they haven’t done such. Oct 7 was a brutal raid, but that’s not genocide.

Hamas has taken action towards peace negotiations before and during this conflict, I don’t see why we shouldn’t trust that any less than wild statements.

Its possible to trust, but verify. Work towards peace and diplomacy, while also keeping security tight. Israel has been doing the opposite, sabotage diplomacy and be lax on security. 

Edited August 10 by Raze

[Karmadhi]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, because a genocidal lunatic obviously does not care about civilians.

Hamas has denied targeting civilians on Oct 7th.

You look at whether their words match their actions.

You literally have said in previous posts on this thread that there is reasonable evidence according to the ICJ that Israel is doing genocide in Gaza.

Of course Israel cannot be as open as Hamas about it because they have a PR to hold.

But do you really think Israel cares about Palestinian civilians more than Hamas cares about Israeli civilians?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-it-may-be-justified-to-starve-2-million-gazans-but-world-wont-let-us/

The only difference is that in Israel you have some Hamas like people (one I sent above) and some more moderate meanwhile with Hamas everyone is extreme.

 

 

Edited August 10 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The difference is that Gaza hasn't been nuked.

What would Israel gain by nuking Gaza really?

1. Their hostages would be more likely all killed, resulting in massive protests and possibly a overthrow of the current government.

2. Their reputation would be totally destroyed.

3. Hamas would still survive since they operate 50 meters underground where a nuke will not damage them as much.

4. Israel can easily bomb Gaza with impunity without needing to use Nukes. 

So why should they even nuke Gaza?

[Something Funny]

14 minutes ago, Raze said:

Their actions haven’t been genocidal, you just assume they would do it if they could, but regardless so far they haven’t done such. Oct 7 was a brutal raid, but that’s not genocide.

Hamas has taken action towards peace negotiations before and during this conflict.

I don't think it's far fetched to assume that they would start a genocide if they could. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

You literally have said in previous posts on this thread that there is reasonable evidence according to the ICJ that Israel is doing genocide in Gaza.

It's more ethnic cleansing and domination than proper genocide.

[Bobby_2021]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, because a genocidal lunatic obviously does not care about civilians.

Hamas has denied targeting civilians on Oct 7th.

You look at whether their words match their actions.

Just so that you know, the IDF has also killed Israeli civilians on Oct 7. 

It is called the Hannibal directive.  

Oct 7 is shrouded in mystery. Also, a lot of the people killed on oct 7 were IDF soldiers. 

Let's not jump to conclusions based on what Israel reports. Wait till more authoritative reports arrive. 

The deeper point is that noone's words match with their actions. Which is why we look at their actions. 

Edited August 10 by Bobby_2021

[Karmadhi]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's more ethnic cleansing and domination than proper genocide.

Do you think Hamas would do a Holocaust type genocide on Israelis if they could?

I am not an expert on Hamas but I have seen that their charter is the destruction of Israel, that would entail taking all their land and kicking out the jews which is basically ethnic cleansing. Of course tons will also be killed for that to happen.

I have not seen Hamas say they want to do a proper genocide.

October 7th was their first time ever that they had their hands on large amounts of civilians so of course they would over react and go berserk.

An abused person will abuse the first time he gets some sort of break from the cycle of being abused.

I do think some of top Hamas leadership is proper genocidal but I doubt all their soldiers are.

Keep in mind, those that did the October attack were mostly orphans killed by Israeli strikes, so they were probably the most ruthless Hamas people that had personal stakes on this.

It reminded me of Soviets raping and murdering German civilians when they finally got their hands on them during the end of the second world war. They had suffered so much under the Nazis that many of them started abusing Germans.

[Bobby_2021]

15 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

I don't think it's far fetched to assume that they would start a genocide if they could. 

It is a case of projection.

Iran is not nearly as unhinged as Israel in how they conduct themselves. Even Russia warned Iran to have restraint in how they retaliate to Israel.  

Just look at Iran's retaliation in April. The mullahs showed spectacular restraint when they absolutely could have chosen not to. You guys forget all that and cast them as barbarians so that your barbaric acts would get some legitimacy and validation. 

Everyone except Israel & her allies conducts themselves with restraint.

Do you really think that Iran does not have the manpower or missiles to take out Israel. Lol. They held themselves back. Give some credit where it's due.   

Edited August 10 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Do you think Hamas would do a Holocaust type genocide on Israelis if they could?

Yes, minus the gas chambers.

[Something Funny]

@Bobby_2021 when did we start talking about iran?

[Bobby_2021]

4 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Bobby_2021 when did we start talking about iran?

Since they could aid Hamas with means for an Israeli genocide.