Israel / Palestine News Thread

[hundreth]

4 hours ago, Raze said:

@hundreth

@numbersinarow
 

 In 1953 the IDF entered the village and Qibya and killed 69 Palestinian civilian villagers, two thirds of whom were women and children

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre

In 1982 IDF allowed Lebanese Christian militias to enter a refugee camp and for 40 hours straight massacre between 1,300-3,500 Palestinians and Lebanese civilians, the vast majority of the dead were women, children and elderly men. The IDF did not prevent the massacre and instead guarded the entrance and exists of the camps to not allow anyone to leave and instead uses flares to help the militia members.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

 
 

Because these operations targeted civilians, would you consider this terrorism?

The first one, yes.

The second one I'm not sure. For one, the Lebanese are the ones who perpetuated it with Israeli intelligence and weaponry. Also, the main motivation was to root out the PLO. Anyways this one seems multi faceted.

The first one is clearly a form of terrorism because the intention was deterrence via retribution on civilians from a previous attack.

[Nivsch]

54 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Israel has attempted to move towards two states, and was met with bad faith and attacks

Actually just after Oslo agreement was signed in 1994, an unprecedented series of terror suicide attacks within Israel has started. hamas (and the more right wing sectors within Palestinians) don't want compromises, they want 1947 back.

Edited August 9 by Nivsch

[Raze]

 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

 

Israel has attempted to move towards two states, and was met with bad faith and attacks. They attempted to leave Gaza and were rewarded with Hamas and attacks. No good deed goes unpunished with the Palestinians.

1) then why did Israel allow 700,000 settlers into the West Bank and Jeresulem?

2) why did the Knesset vote against two states just recently?

[Nivsch]

Edited August 9 by Nivsch

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

1) then why did Israel allow 700,000 settlers into the West Bank and Jeresulem?

2) why did the Knesset vote against two states just recently?

How are you going to conflate 2024 with the late 90s and early 2000s? Obviously, circumstances have changed.

[hundreth]

 

[Karmadhi]

7 hours ago, hundreth said:

There is no negotiating with Hamas. Both of them greenlit October 7th, they are dead men walking.

Can you explain to me one thing.

Israeli logic basically says since Hamas did October 7th, then Israeli society is justified to wipe them out.

But what about for example the 2014 Israeli terroristic attacks which killed 3x the number of Palestinian civilians and no Israeli civilians were killed.

Does it justify Hamas to want to wipe out the IDF?

I am just curious because you seem to downgrade the fact that in the overall picture, Israeli civilian losses are very low compared to Palestine.

7 hours ago, hundreth said:

Justice to Palestinians is the complete elimination of Israel. By that metric, there is no path forward. That is the reality of the situation. You can't really apply what happened in South Africa here.

Not true. Only radical ones.

You can thank your Prime Minister for trying to push radical groups like Hamas and silence more moderate groups.

How about a two state solution or 1 state where everyone has equal voting rights?

7 hours ago, hundreth said:

Israel has attempted to move towards two states, and was met with bad faith and attacks. They attempted to leave Gaza and were rewarded with Hamas and attacks. No good deed goes unpunished with the Palestinians.

Did Israel offer to give them a proper state with equal rights? Curious. Because I read the Oslo accords were not a full statehood.

Also when Israel left Gaza, they still did a huge blockade on them.

Edited August 9 by Karmadhi

[royce]

10 miles north of Jericho, in the Palestinian village of Al-Auja, American journalist

@RainsBrendan

is covering settler attacks against Palestinian water sources/ infrastructure. As his car was stopped, belligerent Israeli settlers taunted, spit and threw beer at him.

 

https://x.com/loffredojeremy/status/1821995104510283958

[Minini]

https://x.com/brokenmirror33/status/1822109000273440787 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/8/10/israels-war-on-gaza-live-70000-flee-new-israeli-operation-in-khan-younis 

Israel’s war on Gaza live: More than 100 reported killed in school attack

The most documented genocide still going on. I honestly do not know the consequences on the global consciousness of witnessing footage of death on a daily basis for fellow humans and witnessing how mass murder is becoming normalized like that. 

[Bobby_2021]

On 8/4/2024 at 7:10 AM, Leo Gura said:

It's hard to label them as anything else when they openly declare their commitment to do genocide.

Barking dogs seldom bite.

If a dog really wants to kill you it will approach you silently from behind and rip off your ass.

Dogs that viciously bark are showing aggression to fend you off because the dog sees you as a THREAT. 

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Barking dogs seldom bite.

If a dog really wants to kill you it will approach you silently from behind and rip off your ass.

Dogs that viciously bark are showing aggression to fend you off because the dog sees you as a THREAT. 

This is a failure to understand Stage Red.

The only reason Hamas has not fully genocided Israel is because they lack the material resources and manpower to do it. Netanyahu is correct in his assessment of this, and leftitsts are wrong. It would be wise if the leftists acknowledged their wrongness on this point.

Israel has the means to annihilate the Palestinians, but not the will.

Hamas has the will to annihilate the Israelis, but not the means.

So here we are.

There is no need to invent BS, just say that Israel is abusing a minority group. That's what the leftist position should be. It's such a simple and air-tight position.

Edited August 10 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

only reason Hamas has not fully genocided Israel is because they lack the material resources and manpower to do it. Netanyahu is correct in his assessment of this, and leftitsts are wrong. It would be wise if the leftists acknowledged their wrongness on this point.

So why prior to Oct 7 did Netanyahu transfer funds to Hamas, move IDF guarding Gaza to the West Bank, and ignore warnings about a possible Hamas operation? His actions conflict with his beliefs if this is what he really thinks. 
 

The thing is, what your saying is true for anything, if Israel could make all Palestinians disappear with 0 worldwide push back they would as it would solve all problems they have. The finance minister just said publicly he thinks they’d be morally right to let all of Gaza starve to death but they can’t because of worldwide pressure.

Israel is currently mass killing Palestinians, so obviously many of them, not just Hamas would choose to end all Israelis if they could. If country was killing your family and kept you locked in a prison and you had the power somehow to make them all cease to exist, would you not consider doing it?

it’s a moot point, you could say this about any two sides in a major conflict. That doesn’t mean you should refuse to take deals and do diplomacy because you assume they would kill you all if they could.

If we agree with the demonization of Hamas, it allows Israel to continue the strategy of encouraging extremism to avoid entertaining a peaceful solution. 

Edited August 10 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Raze said:

So why prior to Oct 7 did Netanyahu transfer funds to Hamas, move IDF guarding Gaza to the West Bank, and ignore warnings about a possible Hamas operation? His actions conflict with his beliefs if this is what he really thinks. 

Because Bibi is playing machiavellian 3D chess.

Bibi was trying to destroy the possibility of a Palensitian state by any means, which includes funding their radicals and assassinating their moderates.

Bibi is extremely clear about his motives: A two-state solution over his dead body.

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, Raze said:

So why prior to Oct 7 did Netanyahu transfer funds to Hamas, move IDF guarding Gaza to the West Bank, and ignore warnings about a possible Hamas operation?

A "tiny and smart military" conception most security seniors were under it in the last decade when relying too much on technologic defenses. 

Edited August 10 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

20 minutes ago, Raze said:

disappear with 0 worldwide push back they would as it would solve all problems they have

Iran's regime is a way bigger problem to Israel than right wing palestinians. hamas is only one of its proxies.

Edited August 10 by Nivsch

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because Bibi is playing machiavellian 3D chess.

Bibi was trying to destroy the possibility of a Palensitian state by any means, which includes funding their radicals and assassinating their moderates.

Bibi is extremely clear about his motives: A two-state solution over his dead body.

 

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

A "tiny and smart military" conception most security seniors were under it in the last decade when relying too much on technologic defenses. 

That entire time he was also insisting Hamas is all genocidal and can never be negotiated with.

But his actions simply isn’t the behavior of someone who thinks Hamas is some satanic force. Even people who don’t think Hamas is completely genocidal wouldn’t support what he did.

Why should we suddenly believe him now when he says hamas can’t be negotiated with, they’re entirely genocidal?

 

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Raze said:

Why should we suddenly believe him now when he says hamas can’t be negotiated with, they’re entirely genocidal?

You should listen to the Hamas leader I quote-posted. Not anyone else.

You are starting to turn into a leftist-MAGA, where I give you clear undisputable evidence and you just skip over it and carry on with your ways. There can be no healthy politics if you behave that way.

Edited August 10 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The only reason Hamas has not fully genocided Israel is because they lack the material resources and manpower to do it.

This is just a hypothetical point that is also reductionistic in nature.

If you abuse a kid, she will have enough anger to kill you at the moment. But no one takes it seriously because the child is obviously underdeveloped and is merely REACTING to you. It is an act of territorial display and aggression. "We are dangerous monsters, do not come near us". 

If you are saying that Hamas would genocide Israelis with nukes, then Hamas would have to first evolve themselves above stage red to get to develop nukes. So, by the time they develop their own nukes, they would have enough restraint, maturity and development to not use them for genocide. But if Hamas had the nukes, Israel would think twice about the illegal occupation.  

So, if you want to argue in hypotheticals, here you go. A lot of things would be different if Hamas had nukes or the competence to genocide Israelis. 

But the whole problem is that Israel would not even allow Gaza to have their own airport, forget nukes. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel has the means to annihilate the Palestinians, but not the will.

Genocidal intend has been established and is not considered a point of contention. They are already executing on their will. 

Edited August 10 by Bobby_2021

[Something Funny]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You should listen to the Hamas leader I quote-posted. Not anyone else.

You are starting to turn into a leftist-MAGA, where I give you clear undisputable evidence and you just skip over it and carry on with your ways. There can be no healthy politics if you behave that way.

What's the difference between what Hamas said they would do in that video and what Israel is actively doing? Why Hamas is the only genocidal maniac in this case?