Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

Quote

Bodies of missing aid workers found in Gaza ‘mass grave’ following Israeli attacks

 

Quote

CNN — 

The bodies of more than a dozen aid workers have been recovered in southern Gaza from what a United Nations agency described as a “mass grave,” a week after they went missing following attacks by Israeli forces.

Eight of the 14 bodies recovered Sunday from the site in the southern Rafah area were identified as members of the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS), five as civil defense, and one as a UN agency employee, PRCS said in a statement. One PRCS medic remains missing.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/31/middleeast/aid-workers-found-gaza-mass-grave-intl-hnk/index.html
 

Quote

Israeli soldier tells CBS News he was ordered to use Palestinians as human shields in Gaza

 

Quote

CBS News spoke recently with an Israeli soldier who has questioned the military's tactics. Tommy — not his real name, as he agreed to speak with CBS News on the condition of anonymity — fought in Gaza for the IDF, and his account of the tactics used raises some serious questions.

"We've burned down buildings for no reasons, which is violating the international law, of course," he told CBS News. "…And we used human shields as protection."

Tommy said his commander ordered his unit to use Gazan civilians to search buildings for explosives instead of dogs.

"They were Palestinian," he said. "We sent them in first to see if the building was clear and check for booby traps…They were trembling and shaking."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israeli-soldier-palestinians-human-shields-gaza/

[AION]

56 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@AION which ai can create Hitler pictures? Most ai are too sensitive for this.

grok

[Nivsch]

18 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

So Israel's right to exist as a country is increasingly coming into question. If at some point the US decides to stop supporting Israel, well...

Maybe the US understands something many people don't.

Maybe the US knows Israel in a much broader way for decades and sees that small sectors hijacking the country do not truly represent the Israeli public and its values. Values that, on average, are similar to those of America and also diverse within the population in similar way.

Edited April 1 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Maybe US understands something many people don't.

Maybe US knows Israel in a much broader way for decades, and therefore know that one or two sectors who hijacks the whole country are not a good representors of the Israeli public and its value systems that in average very similar and diverse similarly to America.

I think that Americans support Israel because it's their way of maintaining belligerence and instability in the Middle East, and thus being able to control the oil, and because the Jews have great power in US . But the US really doesn't need that excuse anymore. It's just another excuse that, if it becomes too uncomfortable, could be replaced with another. And maybe many Jews will start thinking that it's great being jew but not so being Zionist. Who knows, really would be great that your country reach a balance in the area, but the recent events are a before and after, let's see what happens 

Watching videos of Zionists taking their children to see bombs fall on Gaza hospitals, and seeing settlers destroy humanitarian aid to the starving population will come at a high price.

[Nivsch]

@Breakingthewall From all that I have heard over 30 years about the relationships between key people in both countries, I find those lobby and utilitarian explanations almost an insult to intelligence, way oversimplified, feeling to me as a bypass stories in some senses and sometimes bordering in conspiracy.

I understand this video has affected you and you are right for being outraged from people who watch bombing and so on, but I really can pick up examples of foolish people in every country.

Edited April 1 by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

52 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Breakingthewall From all that I have heard over 30 years about the relationships between key people in both countries, I find those lobby and I utilitarian explanations almost an insult to intelligence, way oversimplified, feeling to me as a bypass stories in some senses and sometimes bordering in conspiracy.

I understand this video has affected you and you are right for being outraged from people who watch bombing and so on, but I really can pick up examples of foolish people in every country.

It's your opinion. For me, the explanation that the US supports Israel because they share the same values of democracy, freedom, and equality is the insult to intelligence. The US only acts out of self-interest, like all other countries. The US has repeatedly demonstrated the fickleness of its commitments and alliances. The moment the cost outweighs the benefit, it withdraws. It acts like a company 

[Basman]

On 09/02/2025 at 10:36 AM, PurpleTree said:

 

Norway has always been quiet pro-Palestine, at least since the mid 1940s when the then government rejected Zionism as unethical. It is part of the culture of Norway to be supportive of Palestine. I think it is in part because Norwegians feel a duty to help them considering how well off they are comparatively in addition to the more direct political support of Palestine since the 70s and 90s cementing the sentiment as part of their identity. It is one of the positive aspects of a Stage Green culture.

[zazen]

https://x.com/ddgsarah/status/1906728482333458713?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ

“You will never de-Zionize the United States without confronting the religious ideology that underpins it.

This country was not only founded on Protestantism, it was shaped by an evolving belief system that merged American exceptionalism with Biblical prophecy, culminating in dispensationalism, a theology that made support for Israel a sacred duty.

Protestants make up about 40% of the U.S. population, and within that, Evangelicals are the largest and most politically active bloc.

The most zealous form of Zionism in America isn’t Jewish—it’s Evangelical Protestant.

Their worldview is dominated by a homegrown American theological export called dispensationalism, which originated in the 19th century with theologians like John Nelson Darby and was popularized in the U.S. through figures like Cyrus Scofield and later Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye (author of Left Behind series).

Dispensationalists believe:

•The return of Jews to the Holy Land is a divine prerequisite for the Second Coming of Christ.

•The modern state of Israel is God’s chosen nation, and its survival and expansion are necessary to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

•Any attack on Israel is literally a battle between good and evil.

This belief system is embedded in American foreign policy through decades of lobbying, political donations, and mass voting blocs. It transcends political parties, with both Republicans and many Democrats subscribing to or fearing the wrath of the Evangelical base.

Every election cycle, candidates from both parties tout their pro-Israel credentials, not just to appease AIPAC, but to win over millions of Evangelical voters who see Israel as a divine project.

Media, megachurches, Christian TV, and even homeschooling curricula in the U.S. indoctrinate children from a young age with pro-Israel prophecy.“

[Twentyfirst]

On 3/31/2025 at 4:47 PM, hundreth said:

I think for most Jews, Zionism is Israel's right to exist. We are here now, we aren't leaving. We can do our best to deal with the wrongs of the past and create the best possible outcomes for the future, but within the parameters of reason.

What is Zionism to you? That's the issue with loaded terms like that. You label them bad, and then those with differing criteria and opinions get bundled in. You've now pushed them further towards the other side and increased extremism. 

You do not deserve to exist on someone else's land. 

Why do you think the people that used to live there but got stolen from are so mad at you?

Let me guess because you are Jewish? It has nothing to do with the thievery 

Edited April 2 by Twentyfirst

[zazen]

I think the simplest way to explain the good and bad of Zionism is this: self-determination is just, but becomes unjust once it starts determining the life of others.

No one objects the principle of liberation through self determination, or that people should have a home. The problem is when that liberation requires the subjugation of another.

Self-determination is liberation, determining others is domination. Israel already has what it once sought - a sovereign state recognised by the UN. It’s achieved self-determination, but is determined not to extend this same right to the Palestinians. It uses its legitimately established state for illegitimate actions beyond it.

Israel has become a launchpad to occupy Palestinian land on its periphery, and weaken the region via the US - who doesn’t just act of imperial self interest, but even when the cost-benefit analysis doesn’t add up. Evangelicals have a mythic allegiance to Israel that is about biblical prophecy, not merely power and profits.

 

Edited April 2 by zazen

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

You do not deserve to exist on someone else's land.  

So Turks have to give back Turkey to Greeks and so on?

 

[Nivsch]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

So Turks have to give back Turkey to Greeks and so on?

+1 🧡

[PurpleTree]

 

[PurpleTree]

 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

+1 🧡

How is that different from Jews returning to Palestine exactly 

[Nivsch]

@zazen Israel gets overall (not particulary about the current operation in Gaza but in general) bipartisan support which is way beyond only the Evangelicals.

12 hours ago, zazen said:

The modern state of Israel is God’s chosen nation, and its survival and expansion are necessary to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

I can agree that both Evangelicals and Smotrich and Ben Gvir voters have those lines of thinking you mentioned. Maybe the more right wing sector in the Likud (Bibi's party) too.

Edited April 2 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

9 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

So Turks have to give back Turkey to Greeks and so on?

 

Are the Greeks even asking for it back?

He was saying that Israel has a right as if it's some law written in stone. They don't have a right to steal. How absurd

Edited April 2 by Twentyfirst

[hundreth]

One thing that gets overlooked is how bad Oct 7th was strategically for the Palestinians.

Before Oct 7 Israel was mostly in a docile state and not focused on Gaza. They were increasing work permits and focused on removing Bibi from power. He had multiple corruption charges against him, elections happening every few months, etc.

It seemed inevitable that Israel was going to oust him in favor of some new leadership. And at this moment what do you? You launch a massive terrorist attack that kills hundreds of civilians. You give Netanyahu exactly what he wants and needs to stay in power.

Now it's a lose lose for everyone. Both sides got fucked.

[Raze]

16 minutes ago, hundreth said:

One thing that gets overlooked is how bad Oct 7th was strategically for the Palestinians.

Before Oct 7 Israel was mostly in a docile state and not focused on Gaza. They were increasing work permits and focused on removing Bibi from power. He had multiple corruption charges against him, elections happening every few months, etc.

It seemed inevitable that Israel was going to oust him in favor of some new leadership. And at this moment what do you? You launch a massive terrorist attack that kills hundreds of civilians. You give Netanyahu exactly what he wants and needs to stay in power.

Now it's a lose lose for everyone. Both sides got fucked.

Israel wasn’t “docile”. It was keeping millions of people under a brutal occupation and expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank. That’s like saying apartheid South Africa was docile. It was attempting to force normalization with Saudi Arabia without lifting the occupation of Palestinians, trying to trap them without any possible leverage to end their subjugation.

The blockade of Gaza was at the point where nearly half were unemployed and less than 10% had consistent access to clean water. Israel was jailing more and more Palestinians without charges. Hamas’s approval was cratering as the population was seeing the status quo as untenable with no way out. Netanyahu sending cash to Hamas and slightly increasing work permits was publicly reported as his attempt to buy quiet while he tried to circumvent the Palestine issue. 

There were plenty of prior leaders before Netanyahu, and none stopped the settlement expansion or ended the blockade of Gaza.

Israel not being focused on Gaza was the problem, if they think they can occupy endlessly without any consequence they have no reason to ever stop. For Hamas the destabilization Israel was facing and removing guards from Gaza could have been there last chance to deal a blow and stop normalization and the status quo from being locked in.

Edited April 4 by Raze

[hundreth]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

Israel wasn’t “docile”. It was keeping millions of people under a brutal occupation and expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank. That’s like saying apartheid South Africa was docile. It was attempting to force normalization with Saudi Arabia without lifting the occupation of Palestinians, trying to trap them without any possible leverage to end their subjugation.

The blockade of Gaza was at the point where nearly half were unemployed and less than 10% had consistent access to clean water. Israel was jailing more and more Palestinians without charges. Hamas’s approval was cratering as the population was seeing the status quo as untenable with no way out.

There were plenty of prior leaders before Netanyahu, and none stopped the settlement expansion or ended the blockade of Gaza.

Israel not being focused on Gaza was the problem, if they think they can occupy endlessly without any consequence they have no reason to ever stop. For Hamas the destabilization Israel was facing and removing guards from Gaza could have been there last chance to deal a blow and stop normalization and the status quo from being locked in.

Any way you spin it, you cannot avoid how catastrophic the end result has been for the Palestinians. Ousting Netanyahu could have only been beneficial for them.

But you probably don't care about incremental wins, as anything that harms Israel must be for the greater good even if it harms Palestinians even worse.

The Palestinians really gained nothing from this. The Hamas lose lose strategy.