Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

[PurpleTree]

Good discussion guys 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But here i don’t think Egypt is going for this. Or what could Trump offer? US weapons, tech?

« Trump suggests Egypt and Jordan take more Palestinians »

Edited January 26 by PurpleTree

[PurpleTree]

 

[PurpleTree]

His English is really good actually. 

 

[Twentyfirst]

 

[Raze]

[Raze]

[Hatfort]

I'm reading today is the anniversary of the brutal murder of the six-year-old girl Hind Rajab. Not that her life mattered more than the other thousands of children that have been killed, but she has unfortunately become a symbol because the way she died showed so much about Israel, for anyone who still had doubts. The girl was inside a vehicle with her dead family members, she managed to get a phone and ask for help. Palestinian authorities thought there was no way Israel wouldn't allow the rescue of a child. Wrong. They communicated with the IDF and asked permission to rescue the girl giving them her location and informing that they were heading there. The permission was granted and a safe pass given, so two paramedics volunteered to go, their names were Yusuf Zeino and Ahmed Al-Madhoun. The vehicle where Hind was filled with bullets and the ambulance of the paramedics was blown, both of them died too. 

There are some more examples of Israel's crazy cruel actions last year, like the flour massacre, the just-born twins whose father was registering their names blew up in their homes, the burning camps, the mass graves in the hospitals, the seven Western aid workers, and many I don't remember. Those were the easy ones to document for one reason or another, obviously, thousands of more have happened inadvertently for the public eye. There are also the Israeli civilians' images, contributing as best as they could by stopping aid trucks and destroying food that was heading to Gazans, they wanted to kill them by starvation.

Now we see Hamas hostages getting out of their captivity in good health, in contrast with the Palestinian ones that are getting out in deplorable conditions. This all started because Zionists claimed a land for them to occupy by foreigners, which was inhabited and took it by violent ethnic cleansing campaigns of the indigenous people that have been going on for decades. It's not self-defense, it's attack, the Palestinians are defending themselves from these murderers who kill them, and their children, cut their olive trees and their right to develop any livelihood, steal their homes and lands, and have them in apartheid conditions at best in permanent danger of being killed because there's no repercussion at all for their captor's when they do it. This is USA's shame, because they enable it with money and weapons, without them, it just wouldn't be possible.

Edited Saturday at 12:36 AM by Hatfort

[Nivsch]

12 hours ago, Hatfort said:

showed so much about Israel

There is no need to generalize in such a way, because then why are you so surprised that many Israelis generalize as well and left with no emphaty to Palestinians? Could you see you are doing now just the same with your message? 

Many hostages were not in good health and have been murdered by hamas in captivity. The attempt to take this psychopatic organization (literally, by behaviour and evidence only from the last days, not because I am angry on them or something) and draw it in humane lines doesn't do a good service to the message you are trying to pass.

Edited Saturday at 01:01 PM by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

 

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

There is no need to generalize in such a way, because then why are you so surprised that many Israelis generalize as well and left with no emphaty to Palestinians? Could you see you are doing now just the same with your message? 

Many hostages were not in good health and have been murdered by hamas in captivity. The attempt to take this psychopatic organization (literally, by behaviour and evidence only from the last days, not because I am angry on them or something) and draw it in humane lines doesn't do a good service to the message you are trying to pass.

In normal human society...people generally don't feel bad for the aggressors 

Im not even saying anything about you personally but imagine this

You live in a high crime neighborhood. There are 20 houses on the street. Every single house is a criminal. Drug dealers, rapists, gun dealers, and murderers. You are the only 1 out of 20 that is not a criminal

The neighborhood develops a bad reputation. People say that it's a terrible neighborhood and to stay away from it. People say all sorts of bad things about it

Then you wonder where is this all coming from? I am good. I am not bad. This is confusing why do they call me bad?

They aren't speaking about you but the other people that live there

 

Edited Saturday at 05:36 PM by Twentyfirst

[Raze]

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

There is no need to generalize in such a way, because then why are you so surprised that many Israelis generalize as well and left with no emphaty to Palestinians? Could you see you are doing now just the same with your message? 

Many hostages were not in good health and have been murdered by hamas in captivity. The attempt to take this psychopatic organization (literally, by behaviour and evidence only from the last days, not because I am angry on them or something) and draw it in humane lines doesn't do a good service to the message you are trying to pass.

In the last few days hamas did exactly what they promised, when there is a ceasefire they return the hostages.

The hostages it looks like were hurt primarily by Israel’s actions, some killed by Israel, they said themselves they went hungry when Israel blocked aid into Gaza, and when Hamas killed them it was to avoid idf capturing them without making a ceasefire which they warned they would do.

In the meantime, IDF are invading the West bank, we have a video of a IDF sniper shooting a child in the back, they banned and are arresting people for shows of celebration for Palestinian prisoners being released, and they are arresting more Palestinians held without charges for every prisoner released.

By any metric the IDF is being more psychopathic, not only did they bomb and starve their own rather then agree to the ceasefire earlier, they are now effectively breaking it by continuing to kill and arrest.

If Hamas is so bad for taking hostages, why are Israelis not commenting on how many of the Palestinian prisoners being released are women and children who were held for years without charges? 
 

If having a ceremony of release for hostages and giving them a certification is psychopathic, what would we describe the idf releasing Palestinian prisoners in cuffs with a forced bow and a bracelet vowing revenge 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:21 PM by Raze

[zazen]

@Raze with the razor sharp facts and logic as usual. Let’s see what Trump and Bibi come away with in their meeting this week.

[Nivsch]

" Consistently, for over half a year, our research at Accord has shown that nearly half of the public in Israel supports a regional-security-political framework that includes agreement to the establishment of a Palestinian state. 

The study found that 51% of the Jewish public supports this framework. "

Full post:

" Support for a Regional-Political-Security Agreement Including the Establishment of a Palestinian State – Not What You Thought

Time and again, we hear in public discourse that "after October 7th, no one in Israel will agree to the establishment of a Palestinian state." The reality, however, is quite the opposite and support has also actually been growing significantly in the past month. Here are the facts:

For over six months, our research at aChord has consistently shown that nearly half of the Israeli public supports a regional-political-security framework that includes an agreement to establish a Palestinian state. Our studies have found that around 45-50% of Israelis believe that Israel should agree to a settlement described as follows: "A U.S.-backed political-security agreement which includes agreeing  to the establishment of a Palestinian state in exchange for  recognition of the state of Israel by  Arab states and normalization agreements between Israel and Arab states."  Full research links are in the comments.

In the past few weeks, following Trump's election and his entry into office, we have seen—both in our latest research at aChord and in a study by Agam Research Institute—a significant increase in support for this regional framework, which includes the establishment of a Palestinian state.

In our latest aChord study, conducted just under two weeks ago (January 20-21), we found that a majority of the Israeli public (60%) prefers that Trump promote a political-security agreement that includes normalization with Arab states, including Saudi Arabia, and agreeing to establish a Palestinian state. This is compared to 31% who preferred that he pursue full annexation of the West Bank. Notably, despite the option to abstain, 60% actively chose to support this framework rather than avoid taking a stance. Among opposition voters (see the left circle in the chart), there is an overwhelming consensus—86% support this framework. Full research links are in the comments.

A study by the Agam Research Institute, conducted in early January, posed the following question:  "If U.S. President Trump were to promote a comprehensive political deal that includes normalization and a regional defense alliance between Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other Arab states; U.S. security and economic guarantees for Israel; and in return, Israel would withdraw from parts of Gaza and agree to the establishment of a Palestinian state in Palestinian territories under new leadership unaffiliated with terrorist organizations—how should Israel respond?"  The results showed that 51% of the Jewish public supports this framework. This suggests, roughly estimated, that overall support among the Israeli public is around 60%, given that the vast majority of the Arab public supports it. These findings align with our research at aChord. A screenshot of this finding from the Agam study is in the comments.

The bottom line is: Before Trump’s election, the Israeli public was divided on whether to support a regional-political-security agreement that includes the establishment of a Palestinian state. But the Trump effect has brought about a significant shift—now, half of the Jewish public, an overwhelming majority of the democratic-liberal camp, and a clear majority of Israeli society as a whole support this approach.

Professor Eran Halperin reflected on these findings, stating:
"Public opinion in Israel regarding the Palestinian issue over the past year is far more complex than many assume. On the one hand, naturally, there has been a sharp shift toward extremism, anger, and deep mistrust of the Palestinians and the very idea of peace. On the other hand, there is pragmatism and a growing sense of urgency for a solution. And from the moment Trump has backed the idea of a regional agreement—including a pathway to a Palestinian state—we see a dramatic surge in support for this framework."

Take note, leaders of the democratic-liberal camp in Israel. "

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15w5xJee2o/

Edited Monday at 08:15 PM by Nivsch

[Raze]

[Twentyfirst]

22 minutes ago, Raze said:

Never trust western media. About anything. Even if they say a cat is stuck in a tree. Its a lie

[zazen]

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-840500
 

It’s tricky with polls because it can depend on the sample size and who was selected etc. Sometimes these polls are used to shape public perception by creating a false sense of consensus.

Despite that, a flawed poll can still signal a disturbing dominant narrative in a society - which this shows.

Edited yesterday at 09:20 AM by zazen

[Nivsch]

@zazen This 80% support doesn't indicate militaristic or fundamentalist views because it is very logical to struggle with this relocation question AFTER all that happaned to both sides.

Even before the war do you see Gazans lives good enough in this tiny corridor held hostages by a terrorist regime that force restriction on them from both inside and outside?

I can't see hamas even not as an understandable extreme byproduct creation of Palestinians desires to self determination. Really not. Rather it seems to me as a purely psychopatic organization that does not express anything beyond itself and its twisted fanatic ideology.

Edited yesterday at 06:09 PM by Nivsch

[hundreth]

23 hours ago, Raze said:

You think this is because of some engineered bias within the AI, but actually the AI sees the issue more clearly than you. Obviously it is more practical and reasonable given the current situation to relocate the Palestinians. 

Of course there's good arguments against it, which it seems to provide. On the other hand, relocating Israelis makes zero sense at all.

[Raze]

35 minutes ago, hundreth said:

You think this is because of some engineered bias within the AI, but actually the AI sees the issue more clearly than you. Obviously it is more practical and reasonable given the current situation to relocate the Palestinians. 

Of course there's good arguments against it, which it seems to provide. On the other hand, relocating Israelis makes zero sense at all.

It demonstrates the bias that we assume Israelis are entitled to living there while Palestinians who actually trace their ancestry there aren’t.

Israelis constantly say Hamas is evil because in their charter they want to kick the Jews out, yet this entire time they have been and are now openly advocating for kicking the Palestinians out. 

It would actually be easier to relocate Israelis as 10% already have duel passports and many are leaving as we speak.

Edited 23 hours ago by Raze