Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Alex4]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why have you been run by Islam for 50 years?

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Fear has been proven throughout history to be a brutally effective tool.

[Sandhu]

26 minutes ago, Mojimm22 said:

@Leo Gura Leo, you should seriously consider learning more about Iranians and their beliefs because I’ve seen some of your statements about what we believe that are far from the truth. I will do my best to explain the situation here, but it's best that you also do your own research with an open mind.

First of all, most Iranians are against their regime, which I assume you already know. 81 percent of Iranians do not want an Islamic republic. From that, we began to lose trust in the Islamic Republic's media, as it is entirely untrustworthy.

Over the past decades, many people have started consuming opposition media based in the UK or US, as well as independent journals from social media and various other sources that are either liberal or share similar beliefs. For this reason, many people have begun to accept western points of view.

Based on the latest research on Iranian religion from 2020 (even before the recent protests), around 63% of Iranians identify as non-Muslim. I know it might be hard for you to accept since you may have the preconception that "Iran is just another Muslim country full of religious people with some liberals here and there," but I encourage you to do your research to find the truth. We essentially have no freedom of speech; one can be executed for apostasy under Sharia law of the "religion of peace", which our country operates under.

Regarding Palestinians, I must clarify that we are not Arabs and, as mentioned earlier, we are not Muslims. The most common belief regarding Palestine is that Hamas receives billions of dollars from the Iranian people's money to fund terrorism. Many Iranians hold a negative view of Palestine and a positive view of Israel. (video of Iranians in a soccer stadium chanting "Shove the Palestinian flag up your ass". )

We obviously do not want to associate ourselves with any Islamic regime beliefs or any Islamic ideologies. You have to understand that Iranians hate the government so much that they despise anything associated with it. Netanyahu is currently quite popular, especially considering all the terrorist generals killed under his government (You can check his recent Twitter messages to Iranians and look at the comments to see the positive feedback they are giving him.  ). Many Iranians support Israel if they attack Iran, as this government does not have our support.

I hope for a swift end to the war, even if it's only temporary. I believe that Israel should invest in the development of the region, although I find this challenging. Ultimately, I support any solution that minimizes death and destruction for both sides and fosters a path toward lasting peace and stability.

To summarize, Iranians are NOT Arab, NOT Muslim, and NOT a supporter of Hamas. We will not change our long-held beliefs or sacrifice ourselves for a group of mullahs who continue to oppress us more and more.

`

It's very misleading. More than 70 % Iranians are Muslims. Maybe not hardcore Muslims but surely moderate Muslims. It's ridiculous to say that Iranians will support their country being invaded. Invasion will set fire under the ass of every Iranian. I acknowledge that more than half the population do not want absolute Islamic regime but having said that if they were this much opposed to Islam, we would have witnessed some meaningful progress in that direction.

Edited October 14 by Sandhu

[Leo Gura]

Everyone underestimates how conservative people are. People love to talk high ideals, but then in practice you got an ethno-state or Trumpism or Hamas or the Taliban. Especially when shit hits the fan and war starts.

People can talk of liberalism, high ideals, free speech, democracy, human rights, non-corruption, and socialism, but in practice they don't have the development level to live it.

Even Israelis can't live up to the ideals of liberal secular democracy. Nevermind Iran.

Edited October 14 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

You mean Palestinians supporters taking joy in revenge on the IDF or the IDF committing their crimes? I've just seen very big twitter accounts taking joy in the revenge aspect, posting pictures of dead IDF soldiers with captions like ''Another Zio liquidated'' along with support in the comments. Its off putting.

I can get the pleasure in enjoying justice and the tables turning against a brutal occupation, but to enjoy inflicting pain and destruction crosses that line - leave that to them with their Tik Tok videos.

I think it is valid to celebrate dead IDF soldiers but not dead Israel civilians.

Would you expect Polish not to celebrate the death of SS officers? Because that is basically what IDF are to Palestinians and especially Gazans.

But my question was about the tent bombing which was sent here and whose videos of people being burned really made me sick.

[zazen]

What gave rise to the Mullahs in the first place? How did Iran get to where it is:

Kim Dotcom:

''Iran is a victim of decades of injustice perpetrated by the US and the UK in an effort to control Irans oil. They couped the democratically elected leader of Iran in 1953 and installed a US puppet until the Iranian revolution in 1979. Over 500,000 Iranians have died in the US-Iraq war against Iran. Even more died because of US sanctions. Iran is not a terrorist state. Iran has been forced to defend itself against regime change efforts and colonial aggression from the US and their satellites in the Middle East. The Iranians should be applauded for aiding the Palestinian people in their struggle against the illegal occupation by Israel and decades of injustice, theft and dehumanization.''

From Chat GPT:

The rise of European colonial powers in the 18th and 19th centuries had a profound impact on the Muslim world. Many Muslim-majority societies were colonized by Western powers, leading to a deep sense of humiliation, loss of sovereignty, and cultural dislocation. Colonialism introduced foreign systems of governance, education, and economics, which often clashed with traditional Islamic structures.

In response, some parts of the Muslim world turned inward, rejecting Western influence and emphasizing a return to "pure" forms of Islam as a way to resist colonial domination. This reactionary response led to the strengthening of conservative and literalist movements, which sought to protect Islamic identity from what was perceived as corrupting Western influences. Movements like Wahhabism (which emerged in the 18th century) gained prominence as a defense mechanism against foreign domination, advocating for a return to a strict interpretation of the early Islamic practices.

A Uniquely Early Expression of Green Qualities

While many societies and religions have moments where they display Green qualities, Islam's early history, especially during the Golden Age, stands out as a unique and early example of a civilization that, despite being deeply rooted in religious tradition, managed to exhibit a high degree of cultural sophistication and intellectual freedom. In some ways, it could be said that Islam was ahead of its time, incorporating Green values long before the West reached the same stage during the Enlightenment.

The Oscillation Back to Blue and Orange

However, after the Golden Age, many Muslim societies shifted back toward the more rigid, hierarchical structure of Blue (traditional, law-and-order-based thinking), particularly with the rise of imperial powers and the need to defend the Islamic world from external threats (e.g., Crusades, Mongol invasions). These circumstances led to a more insular interpretation of Islam, focusing on the preservation of tradition and the defense of religious orthodoxy, which is more characteristic of Blue thinking.

Edited October 14 by zazen

[Mojimm22]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mojimm22 If all that's true, you are welcome to overthrow your government. Let's see how far you get.

Talk is one thing, then there's reality. Why have you been run by Islam for 50 years?

@Leo Gura We protested in 1999, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2022, In most of these years, over 1,000 innocent protesters were killed simply for protesting.

The reason the Islamic Republic maintains control is that there are three different military groups within Iran, all heavily armed: Sepah, Basij, and Artesh. Two of these groups have the mission to "protect the Islamic Republic with their lives."

We lack leadership and cannot form any militia groups since it is essentially impossible to do so in most Iranian cities. You'll get a death sentence if authorities find any weapon, even a pistol.

Regarding Iranians leaving Islam, this is a recent phenomenon. I myself was a Muslim just five years ago, but things have changed rapidly. People are becoming more radicalized; even without leadership, they have managed to kill over 250 government-supported militants, especially in underdeveloped regions like Baluchistan and Kurdistan. This marks a record since such events have never occurred before.

I have to ask, Why haven’t Palestinians in the West Bank been able to end the occupation? Why have they been run by Judaism for 60 years??

[Mojimm22]

@Alex4 true, we cannot defeat armed opponents with empty hands. No revolution has ever succeeded without leadership or weapons.

[Mojimm22]

48 minutes ago, Sandhu said:

It's very misleading. More than 70 % Iranians are Muslims. Maybe not hardcore Muslims but surely moderate Muslims. It's ridiculous to say that Iranians will support their country being invaded. Invasion will set fire under the ass of every Iranian. I acknowledge that more than half the population do not want absolute Islamic regime but having said that if they were this much opposed to Islam, we would have witnessed some meaningful progress in that direction.

@Sandhu You are neither Iranian nor have you conducted any research. Even the official elections—of which there is evidence of rigging—show that many people were forced to vote due to their government jobs. In many places, votes without names received higher tallies than candidates. Additionally, many were voting for reformists in the hope of looser hijab laws. Despite only 40% voter turnout, the reformists won with significantly higher votes. 
 

[Sandhu]

2 minutes ago, Mojimm22 said:

@Sandhu You are neither Iranian nor have you conducted any research. Even the official elections—of which there is evidence of rigging—show that many people were forced to vote due to their government jobs. In many places, votes without names received higher tallies than candidates. Additionally, many were voting for reformists in the hope of looser hijab laws. Despite only 40% voter turnout, the reformists won with significantly higher votes. 
 

I just have three points to make:

1. Most of the Iranians have a core Muslim identity though many of them are very liberal.

2. Iranians want regime change, because they basically want lifestyle upgradtion, they are not anti-Isam. They will turn into hard nationalist mode when the Israel attacks. 

3. Iranians have strong empathy and sympathy for Palestine and all the Muslims around the world.

[Mojimm22]

@Sandhu I understand your feelings on this topic as a Muslim. If you are interested in seeking the truth, it would be better to ask around among Iranians; you may find that you are right or perhaps not.

Many Iranians actually have strong feelings against Islam, which is quite contrary to what many people believe. I can provide you with numerous videos showing Iranians burning quran or washing the Quran with alcohol.

There are tens of different Telegram and YouTube channels dedicated to disproving Islam and God (the atheist perspective) in Persian 1 2 3 . Just ask people if they would be willing to fight for the Islamic Republic, especially against Israel. Interestingly, Israelis have successfully executed a propaganda campaign that has led many Iranians to develop positive views of them.

There are weekly videos featuring IDF soldiers who speak Persian ( IDF.Farsi )or are Persian Jews, providing updates on the situation in Gaza. Their messages often emphasize that they do not intend to harm civilians and express appreciation for Iranian culture—something the Islamic Republic has oppressed for many years as a theocratic state with Islamist views.

None of this content would exist if there weren't a significant portion of people interested in it.

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Mojimm22 said:

There are tens of different Telegram and YouTube channels dedicated to disproving Islam and God (the atheist perspective) in Persian 1 2 3 . Just ask people if they would be willing to fight for the Islamic Republic, especially against Israel. Interestingly, Israelis have successfully executed a propaganda campaign that has led many Iranians to develop positive views of them.

How your life in Iran are going in general? What do you do for living and how do you feel?

[zazen]

The Associated Press delivers this as if it’s just another mundane political decision. Netanyahu is “examining a plan” to seal off aid, as if he’s thinking over what to have for lunch - when the reality is he’s depriving Palestinians of their own via starvation. Western journalism’s sterile, detached language betrays the gravity of what’s happening in Gaza, so that their own populations and political elite don’t have to reckon with their own complicity, hypocrisy and self image as a civilisation that prides itself on a “West is best” attitude.

This is the playbook of the supposed “developed West” - sanitize the language, make it digestible for the global audience, and erase the humanity of the people being systematically targeted. Strip the situation of its moral context so that starvation, displacement, and suffering become mere “collateral damage” in the eyes of Western readers. They package it as “security” or “self-defense,” when it’s actually a calculated move to eradicate an entire people’s will to live.

The fact that we can even talk about cutting off food and water to hundreds of thousands of people with this level of nonchalance is a reflection of just how dehumanized Palestinians have become in Western discourse. It’s ethnic cleansing with a press release. It’s apartheid with a polished headline. And the so-called “developed” world stands by, either complicit or distracted, while it’s passed off as some kind of pragmatic military strategy. This is the modern face of Western imperialism - wrapped in clean language and never questioned for what it really is: a slow, deliberate extermination of an entire population under the guise of “security.”

Edited October 14 by zazen

[lina]

2 hours ago, Mojimm22 said:

 Interestingly, Israelis have successfully executed a propaganda campaign that has led many Iranians to develop positive views of them.

There are weekly videos featuring IDF soldiers who speak Persian ( IDF.Farsi )or are Persian Jews, providing updates on the situation in Gaza. Their messages often emphasize that they do not intend to harm civilians and express appreciation for Iranian culture—something the Islamic Republic has oppressed for many years as a theocratic state with Islamist views.

That's actually sad and alarming. Short-sighted liberals always fall for this trap. If they are so liberal minded then they better start reading some history. 

[Sandhu]

2 hours ago, Mojimm22 said:

I understand your feelings on this topic as a Muslim. If you are interested in seeking the truth, it would be better to ask around among Iranians; you may find that you are right or perhaps not.

I understand your feelings on this topic as a anti-regime activist. If you are interested in seeking the truth, it would be better to zoom out to see  bigger picture of Iran's collective identity; you may find that you have been a dope about it or perhaps not.

[Sandhu]

11 minutes ago, lina said:

That's actually sad and alarming. Short-sighted liberals always fall for this trap. If they are so liberal minded then they better start reading some history. 

Don't you worry about it, it's map not the territory. They are not dope. We often underestimate people's intelligence. People are not that dumb. They can see through Israeli  bullshit.

[lina]

3 minutes ago, Sandhu said:

Don't you worry about it, it's map not the territory. They are not dope. We often underestimate people's intelligence. People are not that dumb. They can see through Israeli  bullshit.

It's like trying to escape an abusive family by making a deal with and trusting in another devil.. Sadly, it has been a repetitive theme though so it's quite believable that some really fall for it. 

[Mojimm22]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

How your life in Iran are going in general? What do you do for living and how do you feel?

Economically conditions have worsened significantly. I am currently studying at university in tehran. I genuinely hope for better days ahead. yeah there isn’t much else to add.

[Mojimm22]

38 minutes ago, Sandhu said:

I understand your feelings on this topic as a anti-regime activist. If you are interested in seeking the truth, it would be better to zoom out to see  bigger picture of Iran's collective identity; you may find that you have been a dope about it or perhaps not.

@Sandhu I felt an obligation to share some statements based on researched facts and my observations of Iranian society throughout my lifetime. Please excuse me if I choose not to continue this discussion, as it feels childish at this point. I have no interest in arguing, especially with certain individuals like you. stay safe

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, Mojimm22 said:

@Sandhu I felt an obligation to share some statements based on researched facts and my observations of Iranian society throughout my lifetime. Please excuse me if I choose not to continue this discussion, as it feels childish at this point. I have no interest in arguing, especially with certain individuals like you. stay safe

I still have high hopes for Iran. 
Although "hope" is "problematic".

But i think Iran will be a nice much "freer" country in my lifetime that has a lot to offer to the world.

[Raze]