Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Nivsch]

Surveys from the last times 📊📉

Majority of Israelis support Hostages deal.

55% believe that the war is prolonged due to political considerations.

46% Fear from Civil war in Israel (Jews vs Jews).

46% of Palestinians and 62% of Gazans support Two States solution in comparison to only 35% Gazans in December 2023.

A sharp increase in number of Arabs who identify as Israelis since oct7th.

For the decency this is only one survey I personally saw about Palestinians, as well as the Israeli Arabs so take it carefully but its interesting.

Edited October 7 by Nivsch

[LoseYourvelf]

No world leaders are even 10% of Hitler's power mania, he was a freak occurrence even though people want to blame ideology and civilisation, he really was. That's empowering though, to realise that, Hitler occurring is really outside of morality and understanding and linear modes of justification. Really we'd not want to go back and kill Hitler, we'd want to go back and capture him and run some psychiatry on that bitch ass, understand why the fuck it happened with him in the way it did, his crimes don't absolve him of his state of mind, you don't get to explain Hitler away with morality, he is both worse and better than that, that's what should scare you about Hitler, not his murderous rampage, the fact he was able to go on one and lead in the way he did, those are the world leaders we should look at dethroning and capturing. If Netanyahu fits your bill for that you're more similar to Hitler than you are Netanyahu. It's a diplomatic situation versus a freak unbelievable occurrence, when Netanyahu goes fully unhinged and manic, then we'll compare him to Hitler

Fearmonger as you will but you're helping the Israelis with this cartoonish propagandising, I suggest you email a major Israeli governmental/media body and demand they pay you for your war efforts. Maybe you could head to Lebanon this weekend on your own coin and help pick up body parts, too

Also last thing, stop the war immediately, the hourglass is dropping sand and the tallies are being made for all blood spilled. You have no right. Stop

Pack the weapons up and demilitarise the warzones, re-civilise the region, there is a greater war being fought between us billions of years from now, we must pack up and move onwards TODAY

Your explosions are no longer pretty fireworks they are pure hellfire you choose and watch to rain

#votetrump

Edited October 7 by LoseYourvelf

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Did the other mod resign over this perceived biases stuff?

I haven’t seen him in a while

No one resigned. Chill.

[Yimpa]

Today marks the 1 year anniversary since the original attack. Here was my initial reaction that day:

 

[PurpleTree]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No one resigned. Chill.

Alright.

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Did the other mod resign over this perceived biases stuff?

I haven’t seen him in a while

My son got married this weekend been traveling around

I just don't have much more to say on the topic.  I think Israel went way too far in their response to Oct 7th.  It wasn't warranted.  And unless they are willing to work with Palestinians and push for peace then they havent really learned anything from their past.  It seems we may be passed that point now but we have to see how everything unfolds.  Let Leo conduct his study but he should be careful to remember that the video sources will also be biased if they are coming from Palestinians he should try to find neutral sources outside the conflict.  

@Leo Gura What do you mean by Israel's deceptive behavior in the other thread do you mean justifying what they are doing in their own minds or lying about what they are doing or not seeing what they are doing is a "genocide" because they look at themselves as the "good" guys and so does Western media?

 

Edited October 7 by Inliytened1

[hundreth]

15 hours ago, royce said:

After the glorious October 7, the brutality of the Zionist entity was exposed, revealing Israel's true nature to the world. The mask was torn away, reminding everyone that it had always been this way.

Glorious? You are sick man.

[zazen]

@Inliytened1

A good documentary showcasing Israelis deception regarding what occurred on October 7th, to justify their disproportionate response following it:

 

[Nivsch]

33 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Inliytened1

A good documentary showcasing Israelis deception regarding what occurred on October 7th, to justify their disproportionate response following it:

 

The way Israel has responded is definitely a legitimate debate.

But aren't 1500 who got killed enough for you?

Why do you even have a motivation to minimize what happened?

Is this a real mature way to tackle the issue?

The level of argumentation and moral development of the conversations here painfully being exposed as not so high.

[royce]

Interview with Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader of Gaza

Sinwar is a former member of the group’s armed wing who spent more than 20 years in an Israeli prison after being convicted of abducting and killing two Israeli soldiers. He was released in a 2011 prisoner swap.

-June, 2021

Edited October 7 by royce

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

The way Israel has responded is definitely a legitimate debate.

But aren't 1500 who got killed enough for you?

Why do you even have a motivation to minimize what happened?

Is this a real mature way to tackle the issue?

The level of argumentation and moral development of the conversations here painfully being exposed as not so high.

Where have I minimised? I’m simply sharing a video which goes into how October 7th was amplified to justify what Israel has done afterwards.

The beheaded babies, systemic rape, babies in ovens, narrative about the children of light vs darkness and of Western civilisation vs a backward civilisation full of savage barbarians. This is the deception and use of atrocity propaganda.

“Atrocity propaganda exists because it is an extremely effective tool in shaping public opinion and justifying extreme actions. By dehumanizing the enemy, it creates the emotional and moral groundwork for violence, war, and oppression to be seen as not only acceptable but necessary. The power of atrocity propaganda lies in its ability to simplify complex conflicts into clear narratives of good and evil, leaving little room for nuance, debate, or peaceful alternatives.

Once people are convinced they are fighting monsters, there is no limit to what they will tolerate in the name of self-defense or moral duty. This is why, time and again, governments, militaries, and regimes resort to atrocity propaganda—it’s an essential part of selling the public on the idea that extreme actions are not just justified but morally imperative.”

Atrocity propaganda only works if it can stay ahead of the truth, which is hard in the digital age.

Edited October 7 by zazen

[Lyubov]

Talking to zionists on Reddit is wild. These guys really be reaching back to biblical times (1000+ years ago) as justification for their ownership of this land. USA really needs to defund all military spending on Israel. 

[hundreth]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Where have I minimised? I’m simply sharing a video which goes into how October 7th was amplified to justify what Israel has done afterwards.

The beheaded babies, systemic rape, babies in ovens, narrative about the children of light vs darkness and of Western civilisation vs a backward civilisation full of savage barbarians. This is the deception and use of atrocity propaganda.

“Atrocity propaganda exists because it is an extremely effective tool in shaping public opinion and justifying extreme actions. By dehumanizing the enemy, it creates the emotional and moral groundwork for violence, war, and oppression to be seen as not only acceptable but necessary. The power of atrocity propaganda lies in its ability to simplify complex conflicts into clear narratives of good and evil, leaving little room for nuance, debate, or peaceful alternatives.

Once people are convinced they are fighting monsters, there is no limit to what they will tolerate in the name of self-defense or moral duty. This is why, time and again, governments, militaries, and regimes resort to atrocity propaganda—it’s an essential part of selling the public on the idea that extreme actions are not just justified but morally imperative.”

Atrocity propaganda only works if it can stay ahead of the truth, which is hard in the digital age.

That's true, though it feels like the same (Atrocity propaganda) is being done in reverse to Israelis and sometimes Jews in general. 

It was frustrating seeing how very shortly after Oct 7 the beheaded babies rumor showed up, and then instantly the hostages and real carnage that took place was forgotten in place of shifted goalposts. 

Meanwhile, actions by the IDF or certain members of Israeli society are cherry picked and used to dehumanize all Israelis as "evil zionists" where any harm to them is justified. You can see it here, where forum members call Oct 7th atrocities "glorious." This can only be a result of the same kind of dehumanization.

[Beans]

War. Often times means profit off the poor. It’s their dead sons and daughters fighting a fight for land. And their motives. On each side. I wish it would end. Not to mention the side effect of the constant dropping of bombs furthering climate change.  Imagine living on this big blue planet and thinking you have more of a right to live on it than others. Selfishness is a disease. 

Edited October 7 by Beans

[Yimpa]

I recommend that Israel and Gaza go to couples therapy ASAP. Nah, not really. professionals say that forcing your abuser into that is also toxic. So that’s why peace negations are also futile at this stage.

Claude:

1. Safety concerns: Forcing an abuser into therapy can potentially escalate the abuse, as the abuser may retaliate against family members for things discussed in sessions.

2. Power dynamics: Abusers often manipulate situations to maintain control. In a therapy setting, they may use information gained to further manipulate or gaslight their victims.

3. False sense of progress: Abusers may use therapy as a way to appear cooperative while not actually changing their behavior, which can lead to false hope and further complications for the victims.

4. Re-traumatization: Victims may be forced to confront their abuser before they're ready, potentially re-traumatizing them.

5. Misplaced focus: Family therapy typically aims to improve communication and resolve conflicts. In abusive situations, the problem isn't poor communication, but the abuser's choice to engage in abusive behavior.

Edited October 7 by Yimpa

[Inliytened1]

30 minutes ago, hundreth said:

That's true, though it feels like the same (Atrocity propaganda) is being done in reverse to Israelis and sometimes Jews in general. 

It was frustrating seeing how very shortly after Oct 7 the beheaded babies rumor showed up, and then instantly the hostages and real carnage that took place was forgotten in place of shifted goalposts. 

 

What the mostly left is doing is demonizing Israel.   That's what your seeing here on this forum.  A complete demonization of Israel.  It leaves out the terrorism of Hamas and Hezbollah because it wants to focus on demonizing Israel.    It leaves out where Hamas specifically positioned it's personell among civilians.

Yet the problem is there is no defense of what Israel is now doing in Gaza.  I cannot dispute that they have become terrorists of their own now.  It is not the sign of an advanced people.  

 

 

[royce]

**A Word on the Day of the Flood**

I will speak to you away from emotions and whims, and will talk about many facts and evidence. The purpose is to clarify the nature and future of war in general and the Palestinian issue in particular. I will summarize my article in a few interconnected points, using a panoramic style as usual.

**First:** Those who are rushing for victory, whether from Israel or the resistance, are mistaken. This war is long, and rushing its results is a kind of ignorance and fanaticism. Likewise, those who measure victory and defeat by material and human losses are also mistaken. Wars are a struggle of wills; whichever will prevails and imposes itself on the opponent is the victor, even if it suffers greater losses, and vice versa.

**Second:** Since the first day, the Palestinian resistance has not been fighting Israel alone, but also the United States, the G7, and NATO. The G7 has provided political cover for the occupation and supported it with weapons. Since October 7, 2023, military support for Israel has reached over 100,000 tons, a rate that matches four times the "Nickel Grass" operation, where the U.S. supplied Israel during its 1973 war against Egypt and Syria.

More than 500 ships and hundreds of flights from the West to Israel over the year are the reason behind Israel's current aggressiveness in #Gaza and Lebanon.

**Third:** The issue of possessing weapons is fundamental not only in wars but also in imposing wills and influencing matters of economy, society, politics, culture, and religion, etc. Imagine if Russia would react strongly if it learned that NATO was transferring missiles to Poland or that the U.S. was developing missiles with greater ranges and heavier warheads, or that stealth aircraft were being produced that Russian air defenses could not shoot down. This is because the West's military superiority would negatively affect Russian society as a whole.

Russia specifically made the S-400 system against American stealth aircraft and developed hypersonic missiles to ensure its superiority and impose its will over the West. Meanwhile, in our Arab region, we were well aware that Israel would acquire F-35 stealth aircraft, and we did not act. We knew they were developing long-range Jericho ballistic missiles and did not act. We knew they were enhancing their air defense systems with Arrow missiles and the Iron Dome, and we did not act. This is the main reason for the current chaos in the Middle East, as the decision for war and the possession of power lie in the hands of one party, which explains the shameful silence in the face of the crime of genocide happening to two Arab peoples.

**Fourth:** The "Al-Aqsa Flood" cannot be understood only within the geographical context of Palestine. From the first day, we said it would lead to a long and wide war outside of Palestine if a ceasefire is not achieved. The reason for this is its religious connotations in naming—equivalent to the religious connotations of the Zionist naming of Al-Aqsa as the "Temple of Solomon." Those who criticize the flood for its religious naming should also criticize Israel for its religious naming. This flood is merely an Islamic religious reaction to Zionist extremism.

**Fifth:** Who would have believed that Iran would strike Israel twice, including partially destroying three airports and damaging a significant part of the Zionist air force, which roamed freely day and night before October 1? Who would have believed that Yemen and Iraq would be striking Tel Aviv on a daily basis?

And who would have believed that Israel has been living through its longest state of emergency since its establishment, with the battle moving for the first time to its own land, cities, and settlements? These are some of the results of the flood, which have not ended, and it appears that there are still many surprises in store.

-Sameh Asker

[zazen]

19 minutes ago, hundreth said:

That's true, though it feels like the same (Atrocity propaganda) is being done in reverse to Israelis and sometimes Jews in general. 

It was frustrating seeing how very shortly after Oct 7 the beheaded babies rumor showed up, and then instantly the hostages and real carnage that took place was forgotten in place of shifted goalposts. 

Meanwhile, actions by the IDF or certain members of Israeli society are cherry picked and used to dehumanize all Israelis as "evil zionists" where any harm to them is justified. You can see it here, where forum members call Oct 7th atrocities "glorious." This can only be a result of the same kind of dehumanization.

True, it’s one thing to call a just cause glorious, it’s another to call the violent means to that end, in and of itself glorious. Theirs glory in the cause, not in immoral acts done in pursuit of that cause.

Tribal thinking will generalize the best of their group while exceptionalising the worst of their group. Cherry picking the worst examples of a society is problematic as it reduces a society to its worst elements. But I think in Israel’s case theres just been so many cases of bad behaviour caught on video and for such a small country that it looks more systemic rather than as isolated anomalies.

It’s obviously not all the population, but it’s sizable enough to shift state policy and politics. I’ve seen pro Palestinians quote polling which showed that most Israelis don’t think Israel was going hard enough on Gaza in their bombing campaign, even I shared that here before - but I’d have to verify how reflective such polls can really be ie what’s the sample size etc. Its messy to generalize with such things.

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, zazen said:

True, it’s one thing to call a just cause glorious, it’s another to call the violent means to that end, in and of itself glorious. Theirs glory in the cause, not in immoral acts done in pursuit of that cause.

Tribal thinking will generalize the best of their group while exceptionalising the worst of their group. Cherry picking the worst examples of a society is problematic as it reduces a society to its worst elements. But I think in Israel’s case theres just been so many cases of bad behaviour caught on video and for such a small country that it looks more systemic rather than as isolated anomalies.

It’s obviously not all the population, but it’s sizable enough to shift state policy and politics. I’ve seen pro Palestinians quote polling which showed that most Israelis don’t think Israel was going hard enough on Gaza in their bombing campaign, even I shared that here before - but I’d have to verify how reflective such polls can really be ie what’s the sample size etc. Its messy to generalize with such things.

But you see certain people here view Israel as corrupt even as far back as how they founded their state.  And mayhap it was done through terrible atrocities.  But those same horrible acts were done apon them. Where is the focus on that?  Just because the war in Gaza is current events we must not forget history. Do you know how hard I had to work to even get certain people to even admit what Hitler did was terrible? So who is to say that the Palestinians havent been amicable and would have accepted things that you mentioned like citizenship and a place within Israel.  Who is to say that is enough for them?   So it's easy to say it's all on Israel.  It's easy to focus on what they are doing because it's at the forefront.   Yes what they are doing now is wrong but as @hundreth points out there is plenty of that to go around.  Thanks for being a bit more open minded than you were before.

Edited October 7 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

Good summary of 1 year after: