Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When you come in here acting defensive, it's clear there is no interest in you for understanding this issue in any depth, or unraveling the web of self-deceptions at the heart of Israeli society.

It's like you guys learned nothing from my work.

If I may share my position.

Every disagreement, argument, investigation, deepening etc is totally OK, interesting and desirable as long as the game is fair and there are no generalizations or demonizing tactics like the last youtuber did (just an example not that he is so important).

Except this, everything is fine to me.

Edited 17 minutes ago by Nivsch

[Dabidoe]

None of us are immune from the web of self deception. Only a select few can truly "undo the cultural programming" and for whatever reason the actualization this forum represents will only ever apply to a % of our lives/behaviors. Vast majority of humanity will inevitably fall into outrage, bias, idiocy especially when talking about culture war topics.

[Thought Art]

Thoughts?

 

[Raze]

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Where does this guy live?

Lets assume randonally (since I don't know at this moment) France?

Ok, then French people do terrible things like rape.

How do I know that?

Because statistically every day there must be at least one case of rape there.

Thats it. I made the case.

When use this kind of tactics, I can claim infinitely, to the negative or positive direction, about any country or group of people just however I want and it will be true.

After that, those people like this guy will not have to be surprised when Israelis in the media (AKA propaganda) will say only the good things about Israel, because this is the only way they feel they can take action to balance the situation and achieve a fair outcome.

It happens in the media as well as here.

What about this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sde_Teiman_detention_camp

Quote

Multiple released Palestinian detainees have testified they and others, including children, were subjected to rape, gang-rape, other forms of sexual violence as well as psychological and physical torture by both male and female Israeli soldiers and medical staff.[4][5][6][3] Multiple reports also speak of prisoners who suffered from medical neglect for injuries sustained, which led to cases of arm and leg amputations. Their testimonies have been corroborated by whistleblowing Israeli staff and a CNN investigation.[1] The mistreated detainees also included Palestinian healthcare workers who had been captured during Israeli raids on Gaza's hospitals.[7]

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Raze

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Thoughts?

 

I mean it’s very fair to ask for proof for those beheadings and such

It‘s also fair to adk wtf the  IDF was doing that day.

It‘s fair to throw Bibi in jail.

It‘s fair to criticise Zionists and their project.

It‘s fair to criticise Islam and call it backwards.

But the guy is seemingly also supporting a regime who oppresses women and disapears people and dissidents.

So it’s whatever, just muppets arguing.

[Karmadhi]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel is only 75 years old as a nation. There are human beings alive who are older than Israel. That puts their development a bit into perspective for you.

I do not see how that justifies their inhumane barbaric actions to be honest.

Edited 2 hours ago by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

10 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Part of Israelis of course the same.

Yes, for sure. Gideon Levy and the B'Tselem staff are examples of high moral development.

But I fear they represent a small group of people.

If Israelis are ONLY protesting for the hostages and not for the tons of civilians dying in Gaza as a result of their military, then sorry but it is not a high moral development society.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/jewish-protest-israel-gaza-washington-dc

This is an example of high moral development coming from American Jews.

How common is this in Israel?

Note: Protesting to end the war because you only care about the hostages, is NOT a high moral stand. It is Blue.

Green morality which is the case in Western Europe protests for both your own people and the innocents of the enemy group.

Edited 41 minutes ago by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi I want to try to comment to you in a constructive way and not tomato-throwing which I think I am ok in and always try to improve, but after Leo's message I want to take it into account and respect this to deepens my awareness. I Don't want to feel I talk too much so I stop now and write you in the night (here).

Edited 22 minutes ago by Nivsch

[Mr Being]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When you come in here acting defensive, it's clear there is no interest in you for understanding this issue in any depth, or unraveling the web of self-deceptions at the heart of Israeli society.

It's like you guys learned nothing from my work.

And are you? Your posts are coming from heavily anti-Israeli biased sources with plenty of misinformation and half truths, like in the video posted on your blog. The distorted depiction of Zionism and Zionist leaders as colonial fascists with a clear intention of ethnically cleansing the Arab population, without mentioning the part of the Palestinian and Arab leadership and their collaboration with the Nazis, The closure of Jewish immigration during the Holocaust and when fleeing the pogroms, and without the proper context to quotes (and misquotes) and terms (such as 'population transfer' during the eras of empire collapse and wartime), gives a very distorted and partial understanding of the subject in depth.

I think a better (and fair) documentary of the historical context prior to the '48 war can be found on KAN 11 channel here (mostly in Hebrew but with English subs):

https://www.kan.org.il/content/kan/kan-11/p-12013/english-subtitles/155291/

If you're interested, I can provide some sources that present a Israeli/Zionist perspective  without resorting to straw man thier position, for a more meaningful discussion and a deeper understanding of the issue, while also allowing for a fair and critical analysis of all sources.